A Leap of Faith

[VonVilkee]

I'm hoping to run another games day at my house next summer.  Would love to have Warhamsters make a road trip again!  :D

 

These are fun!

[fluger]

The only drawback now is all my parent's stuff is in the porch, so I don't have the space, and I can't do it outdoors in Fall/Winter/Spring because of rain.  

 

Although, I should use these down months to build up more terrain so I can have 4 complete tables.  My goal is to run a mini, 8-person, 3-round, win/loss tournament for bragging rights.  I'd run it quarterly and make some silly trophy type thing that people could etch their names into.  This is my long-term goal...

[huggies01]

I understand what both Kevin and Joey are trying to get at, and lets not forget that I believe in the idea behind them. However I don't like the idea of making the forum public. Remember if we do this it is going to be hell in a hand basket and we will receive backlash if we want to go back to being super secret. Will we implode? 75% chance we won't. However I feel we are looking at this problem as if it is the FORUMS FAULT as to why we aren't bringing people in. I joined (and I'm not the only one) with out being on the forum first. The forum was a result of me trying to get pick-up games.

 

So far it seems a good chunk of us like the idea of a private forum for gaming. To ease schedules, transportation and family times the forum is the best. That is working. Very well in fact. The problem is that it is excluding people. I get that. But maybe that should be addressed on a different foundation then just us trying to fix a problem that has already been fixed. The problem with lack of pick-up games is that people show up and games are already booked. People will still show up looking for games, forums or not that will not change. So simply learning who has games and who does not for that night is an excellent remedy. And yes I know, Not everyone has to abide by this and can still use the forum, I'm cool with that. I understand. However don't underestimate what it means to certain people to belong to club that is one of the incredibly few forums that is private.

 

And personally I will tell you if it wasn't for the Warhamsters and the way they are now I would have been out of the gaming community along time ago.

[sergentzimm]

I think we would be served with either using the ordo boards for gaming setups or splitting off and having our own forums. We can keep the regular forums locked down with membership but have a gaming forum open to all? Either that or does anyone know the status of dark tower getting a website?

[VonVilkee]

I hate multiple forums, I like that we can expose peeps to the broader player base that is all of ordo for game advice.

 

I world be very amenable to moving our weekly game planning thread to the game night section to make use of a more public space for the game planning!

[VonVilkee]

For what it is worth I've joined other club specific forums, DMB, wcp, etc. And I'm always disappointed in the traffic. I'd have a hard time keeping two places posted enough to make people feel welcomed. At this point I like the idea of staying an ordo "sister" club... Brother club maybe? Like the city thing, but moving our game night planning out into the public eye.

[Munkie]

Eh? My stance on the forum was/is keep it private. The forum should be a place for the club and club business. The game room should be the place to set up games, for the most part.

 

If we remove the forum as a necessary step to reliably get a game in, then we remove the need to open the forum.

 

We should use games to vet potential warhamsters. If we play a game with someone new who has a good attitude and is interested in joining the club, then tell them about the forum.

[huggies01]

We should have a Warhamsters 40k sales team. Could make cold calls all night. Ha

[VonVilkee]

We should have a Warhamsters 40k sales team. Could make cold calls all night. Ha

Hey Loren, I basically do this already don't I!?

[stark1261]

Solution:

Keep forum as is, seems to have worked for las few years. To be more inviting to newcomers:

 

Ask Nathaniel if ok to install war hamster white board, then:

-Each week rotate who has there name/contact on the white board for a) Fantasy b) 40k c) other flavor of gaming going on

- have instructions for anyone looking for pickup game on Tuesday to contact before previous Sunday

- rotate names that Tuesday, if a named person not contacted by Sun evening hop in the boards and hopefully get a game.

 

Just my two cents, p.s. Will be looking for a game of fantasy in June of 2015, not sure what week yet

[Fix]

Right.  I am properly lubricated and have given this enough time to stop being mad about it.  And to be honest, I really was mad about this when you guys brought it up this week, in part because I think it's not a particularly sound plan (for reasons I'll try my best to explain) but also because when you initially presented it, it was during a conversation about using the boards to organize games for people.  Whereas I thought I was doing good for members on the forum by steering a bit of traffic, you put it in the context of doing bad for the community at large and that put me immediately on the defensive.  I may have been too aggressive in making my point, for which I apologize to you Kevin, Joey, and Aaron.  But I still see this as the creation of a problem from whole cloth.

 

I am, perhaps, going to be the most selfish here.  I honestly don't care about growing the larger Bellingham gaming community.  I know that various groups exist out there, and frankly don't think they need to be cohesive.  My neighbor across the street hosts a regular monthly board game night.  They play Carcassonne and Magic with a guy six houses up.  They have invited me to their regular deal, but I don't go because it doesn't fit my schedule.  Friday is movie night.  There is a crew at Games and Things that posts up and plays Battletech basically all the time.  I don't go and do that.  There are numerous roleplaying circles that will break and reform semester after semester on campus because that's what gaming circles do.  I played Pathfinder with a guy who works at Yorkies but if it doesn't happen again, it just doesn't happen again.  I saw him tonight.  He was bitching about some DM I have never met, thinking it was our group.  There are enough of us out there now that we should not be beholden to scooping up as many as possible for safety in numbers.  We have numbers.  We have competent, good numbers.  We have competent, good gamers.  We have a good club.  We have fringes and irregulars, but all good members among them and I wouldn't speak ill of them for a minute.

 

I am interested in gaming with that club.  Sure, I want new people to come along and join and play (even other Brads, though we will work on that), and I want some say as to whether they are handed the invitation to be there (and might have to undergo some sort of name-replacement ceremony as part of it).  I want good people to represent us out of town, and I want good people to show every week.  Quite frankly, I don't mind if a complete introvert doesn't get a game over a few weeks, because we have a shockingly extroverted group here, and that is its best quality.  Nobody likes to put anyone in a position where they feel uncomfortable asking for a game.  We can invite all we want, but if jumping through a hoop or two, that might be as minor as "hey, here's my number, let's play next week" is too much then I'm sorry, but you might not be cut out for the club.  No, that doesn't mean you'll never play, but throw us a bone here.

 

And let's not forget that Tuesday is club night, hosted at Dark Tower Games.  Other people (many of whom we have invited and who choose to ignore us) may be in the room from time to time, but it's still when we have our meetings.  And this is our club's forum.

 

The thing that bothers me about this is that I like gaming with you, Kevin.  Joey.  Sherbert.  (since it's you three who I am pretty well trying to justify myself to in apology). I  haven't played a game with you for months, Kevin.  And like a new player, I don't want to feel uncomfortable asking you to play a game in advance because I know you have this pledge going, nor do I want to have to put you in a position of rejecting my offer of a game because you feel obligated to be open to someone who may or may not even exist.  Joey, the last game I played against you was a pickup and I was terrible, grumpy, and awful because I disliked the game and probably made everyone else's experience worse for it.  Sherbert, you're cool, never change.  Like, stop aging.  Now.  Before it's too late.

 

 I don't ever want to feel like I am imposing on you to invite you to play.  If you're not in the mood because of the game, so be it, but if you're reluctant because I'm asking too early?  On our own club forum?  That doesn't even make sense to me.  That's a foreign language.

 

That's is the crux of the thing that bothers me about this plan, is that it creates an artificial divide within the club whereby some people wall themselves off from invites from other members (those who rely on tighter scheduling) in order to provide this openness to a wider community that probably doesn't need it that badly.  And what we're left with is a Scheduling Group that has a smaller pool to draw games from (or doesn't show), and a separate Pickup Group who might find the greatest new guy in the world, but at the cost of basically rejecting invites from friends on a weird principle.

 

Like I said, Kevin - I haven't played a game with you in months, primarily due to the fantastic size and diversity of the group we already call members.  And now I'm going to be hesitant to ask you, as much out of respect for keeping you from feeling uncomfortable as keeping me from feeling awkward for asking.  And this is an improvement?

 

I'm going to go back to shutting up again now.  That's probably not the whole of it, but it's the gist.

[generalripphook]

I have to somewhat agree, we cant force our club to grow if we want to maintain the quality of the club. Not saying everyone else are horrible people but if they come down they know we meet every tuesday, just keep showing up and meet people. I know I never set up games for the first years (when we were on that old forum) and would just show up walking from the bus stop, wait at eagles then if no one could play iI'd chat and catch the next bus an hour later.

 

 

Also thanks again Corey for being the coolest math olympiads chaperone

[nathonicus]

I am somewhat surprised at the responses coming out of people to the suggestion that we try not scheduling games for a few weeks in order to mix it up a bit with the new blood. It is a very simple suggestion, and it may work for you or it may not, but I can't help but think we are taking this waaaay too seriously, and I think Kevin deserves to be given a little bit more support and benefit of the doubt for putting some thought into the health of the club.

 

If you don't like the idea, then don't do it, but it's certainly not the end of the world if a few folks start saying "I'm going to see what's shaking when I get to Dark Tower" for a while, rather than scheduling games.

 

I don't think it's creating an artificial divide - after all, you can always reply "well, you wanna bring your (game) in case?"

 

As far as the insularity of the Warhamsters go, I really appreciate Kevin trying to get new players involved. It was very difficult for me to get involved with you guys and I spent weeks hanging out with no-one to play. It could easily have gone the other way, where I gave up on getting involved with Malifaux and the Tuesday night crowd, and then I wouldn't know many of you. I think it sucks to be on the outside looking in, and I think it's great to try and be as inclusive as possible in this hobby. I think the wider our player base, the better turnout we will have for events and tourneys, and the more support we will have for our hobby locally.

 

Please remember that our gaming space is not something we should take for granted, and the more people playing tabletop games at Dark Tower, the more secure our gaming space and support is.

[Munkie]

I say again, in my mind this is not an effort to grow the club. Nor is it really an effort to grow the community. It is just an effort to change our ways so the community is able to grow.

 

We fill up the back room and mostly just keep to ourselves. There are a few tables in amongst a bunch of noisy, intimidating hamsters. So friends will come in, play each other, then leave. There's no reason for them to come back the next week. Or worse, people come in by themselves looking for a game and either don't want to interrupt our games (what you see as crippling introversion, could just be timid politeness). Or they do summon the confidence to interrupt and then are put off by the steps they've got to go through just to get a game.

 

While the steps aren't particularly difficult to accomplish I can understand not wanting to do it.

 

"Hi, we're strangers! If you don't want us to be strangers anymore, go to this website you've never heard of, PM another complete stranger, and tell him how badly you want to join this group of people you don't know anything about. Got all that? Great, see you next week."

 

Again, not difficult, but neither is it desirable. If we can get a game in with a stranger, then there's an actual incentive to go through those steps. That aside, there's no reason those steps SHOULD exist to get a game.

 

Anyway, Brad, you've got nothing to apologize for. I'd rather you express your hesitations about than just go along with it. I'm not trying to put anybody out. Besides we could all use a good Brad rant every once in a while.

 

I'd like to game with you too, but we don't really play the same games anymore. If I'm looking for a game of fantasy or X-wing, you're not my guy. So if I'm scheduling games, I won't likely be scheduling with you. But if I'm down there looking for a game, and you're down there looking for a game we can get a pick-up game of whatever board game or whacky, unheard of game you've scrounged up. I bought dungeon twister because of a pick-up game with you!

 

And if all else fails, I'm sure we'll have an infinity slap fight sometime once 3rd ed hits.

[Fix]

Also, I just want to add:

 

 

I'm pretty much going to be using this picture as a form of punctuation from here on out.  Like, as a comma.  Or an interrobang.

[nathonicus]

I approve.

[JMGraham]

I say again, in my mind this is not an effort to grow the club. Nor is it really an effort to grow the community. It is just an effort to change our ways so the community is able to grow.

 

Now you've really gone and confused me. It might be my lunchtime post-Halloween brandy, but this doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Could you explain exactly what problem you're hoping to solve? I don't really see how our behavior is stopping other people from playing games.

 

Holy crap, Nathan. That's metal as [a naughty word].

[Munkie]

Now you've really gone and confused me. It might be my lunchtime post-Halloween brandy, but this doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Could you explain exactly what problem you're hoping to solve? I don't really see how our behavior is stopping other people from playing games.

 

The fact is, non-Warhamsters that come down on Tuesdays can only manage to get games in amongst themselves and very rarely with us. Warhamsters play Warhamsters, and nonmembers play nonmembers. There isn't room for growth there, that's my issue.

 

If we expand the pool of players available to walk-ins then we've done our part. If they can get games in more easily, then I think they're more likely to show up again.

 

I'm looking at facilitating growth, not forcing it.

[nathonicus]

Holy crap, Nathan. That's metal as [a naughty word].

 

If you're going to see King Diamond three days before Halloween, corpse paint is mandatory in my book.

[BradNardone]

 

I am interested in gaming with that club.  Sure, I want new people to come along and join and play (even other Brads, though we will work on that), and I want some say as to whether they are handed the invitation to be there (and might have to undergo some sort of name-replacement ceremony as part of it). 

 

I completely agree, did you have a good name in mind you wanted to change yours to?

[Fix]

I completely agree, did you have a good name in mind you wanted to change yours to?

 

My Liege.

 

 

[Raak]

No offense but this thread seems to contain some of the most misguided generalizations I've heard lately; (sorry guys).

 

I don't know about Fantasy but  40k, in its current iteration, is no longer a casual pickup game that can be played with anyone and against any army.

 

Those of us with families and esp. those with kids simply don't have the time to cross their fingers and hope a game drop in their lap on a Tuesday night.

 

I think it's great that a segment of the Hamsters is concerned that people aren't getting pick-up games etc. and are willing to address the issue. That said, I notice most of those in favor of ditching scheduling have far fewer responsibilities and time commitments than the warhamsters with families. Just an observation.

[Raak]

I honestly don't care about growing the larger Bellingham gaming community.  I know that various groups exist out there, and frankly don't think they need to be cohesive. 

This.

 

Thanks for having the balls to say what I was thinking.

[Munkie]

I've gotta disagree, Jon. The vast majority of games that I see random, nonmembers playing is still 40k. It's not what it was, but I still see pickup games of 40k more than anything else.

 

I like New (although perhaps now only) Brad's suggestion of bringing multiple lists depending on the match-up you get.

 

At risk of being a total snark, I think "those of us with families don't have time for pickup games" is also a pretty misguided generalization. I fail to see how having a family means that the same block of time you use to play a scheduled game is closed if that game is not scheduled.

 

You show up on a Tuesday without a scheduled game, and Brad shows up without a scheduled game. There's no new faces looking for a game? Bam!! You two match up.

 

You both got games in, and most importantly, you both still have loving families eagerly awaiting your return.

 

How many dissenters have posted on here? 6 or so? Do you honestly believe that if all 6 of you showed up without a game, that all 6 of you would somehow leave empty handed? That's silly.

 

Anyway, I don't think there's much more I can say in defense of this idea. If you're on board, cool. If not, start a Tuesday thread.

 

I'll be fI'llwing up with those that didn't schedule games to see how it went.

 

Did they get a game? If so, with a Warhamster or someone else? Did they get a game in the system they intended to play or did they switch to plan B, or C, etc.? Hopefully, in time, more people will see that they can not schedule a game and still safely get a game in.

[JMGraham]

Alright, folks. This thread is going nowhere productive. The moral of the story is that folks can do as they like. If you want to post in the Tuesday thread, do so. If you'd rather do pick up games, do so.

 

I expect everyone to drink, kiss, and make up on this Tuesday.