Grey Knights army list: before I build it, does it suck?

[McNathanson]

I've gotten the new GK codex and from the looks of things my existing models will mostly work, but I'm about to drop some considerable $$ on a few Forgeworld kits to build my own Dreadknights because I just do NOT like the Baby Bjorn Dreadknight thing they did.  I'm going to use the Forgeworld Relic Contemptor Dreads as the basis and add lots of stuff... they'll be awesome looking :)  But before I spend the time and money (and lacking the time to really play the army against any variety of other armies out there) I thought I would run it by the experts here and make sure I'm not building something that will just suck!  I'm building for the Teleport Team so 1 HQ and 1 Troop choice are mandatory (otherwise I would skip the suck-tacular GK Strike Squad).  I've tried to explain my choice of units but feel free to suggest wholesale changes (e.g. Paladins -> Terminators or adding a unit of Purifiers) if you think it makes sense... I'm all ears!

 

Oh, I'm building it at 2000 because I saw that's what Borderlands tourneys run at... is 1850 a more common size or is 2k pretty standard?
 

1 Librarian, L3, Tome, Hammer

 

5 Grey Knights

- 1 Psycannon

- 1 Rhino Transport w/ Dozer Blade

^ These guys are purely to satisfy the Troops requirement.  They start on the table most of the time, hide in the Rhino to keep from getting killed, and take cover behind/man the Aegis Defense line

 

10 Paladins

- Apothecary, 1 Psycannon, 1 Incinerator, 4 Halberds, 4 Hammers, Brotherhood Banner

^ These guys typically deepstrike, combat squad if needed (although I prefer to keep them together especially if I get the Portal psychic power on my Librarian so I can move them all together and give them all Feel No Pain)

 

5 Purifiers

- 1 Incinerator, 1 Hammer, 1 Teleport Homer

- 1 Razorback Transport w/ Dozer Blade

^ These guys provide 2 psychic points, and run around in the Razorback, hopefully providing a forward spot for my Paladins and potentially my Interceptors to lock onto their Teleport Homer.  I would give them a Rhino but I wasn't sure if they could use their Nova thing from inside... I don't think so, so I gave them the Razorback for a little variety and it looks cooler IMO than the Rhino

 

10 Interceptors

- 1 Hammer, 2 Incinerators

^ They can either deep strike and run/shoot to Incinerator the crap out of something, or they can start somewhere in cover (e.g. the Aegis defense line) and then teleport shunt into position to burn something.  Then they do their best to survive.  I can also combat squad them and put the two incinerators in a single 5 man team to go burn something then die for the Emporer!

1 Dreadknight

- Sword, Psycannon, Flamer, Teleporter

^ Awesome

 

1 Dreadknight

- Hammer, Psycannon, Flamer, Teleporter

^ The hammer is just b/c I had extra points... I'll probably ditch it unless I can find a great looking giant hammer to model up

 

1 Aegis Defense Line w/ Comms

^ Gets my Deep Striking Paladins onto the table 8/9 games Turn 1 if I want them there, or can delay their arrival until Turn 2 5/9 games if I want to wait until the Teleport Homer is moved forward.

 

So yeah that's the list at 2000 points. 

 

Help me 40k gurus, you're my only hope of not getting rolled over and over (e.g. by my friend's cheater friggin Eldar, haha!)

 

 

[andozane]

At first glance my first comment would be on the paladins get two psycannons in there...I love incinerators, but the psycannon on a terminator armor is the way to go, just so many shots.

 

The Rhino for the Strike squad seems wasted points...5 guys should be easy to hide.  DS them directly into some ruins or cover.

[fluger]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the Rhino.  

 

I agree with Ando on his points.  

 

Also, I'd do whatever it takes to get a Stormraven in there.  They are really good IMO.  

[McNathanson]

I will cut out the Rhino, and drop the Psycannon off the Strike Squad and put it on the Paladins.  I think they could take up to 4 Psycannons by the way, right??  Should I try to get 'em all in?

I've got a Stormraven all tricksy magnetized so I guess I'll try to make it fit... it's a cool way for the Purifiers to roll in, too!  Might have to cut down the Interceptors a little or something.

Are all the guns on the DreadKnights worthwhile?  They're expensive!

[Brother Glacius]

Is there any concern with having just one troop choice? Not an expert obviously, so that's why I'm asking.

[McNathanson]

Yes I'm concerned that it's a waste of 110 points ;)

[winterman]

Is there any concern with having just one troop choice? Not an expert obviously, so that's why I'm asking.

He is using the GK detachment, so his troops are not objective secured.  So there's not much point to taking more troops than required unless using the combined arms detachment from the main rulebook.

 

Some points to consider:

One of the main reasons to take paladins is they get 2 psycannons per 5, as opposed to 1 per 5 of the terminators.  So yes definitely take advantage of that.  

 

Might consider taking 5 paladins and replacing the 5 strikes with 5 terminators.  Frees up points.

 

Purifier's should take a rhino imo.  Yes their power can be used from the rhino as its a witchfire.  I'd consider a second incinerator also.  You can then cast their nova power and then follow up with double incinerator.

 

For the dreadknights, hammer is not a bad option to be honest.  For the points I think its better than the sword.  Also I think two weapons is a bit too pricey on them.

 

Should be able to squeeze in a storm raven if you strip down the list.

[McNathanson]

Revised list incorporating suggestions so far:

 

1 Librarian, L3, Tome, Hammer, Fury of Deimos (super storm bolter)

 

5 Grey Knights (no extras)

^ These guys are purely to satisfy the Troops requirement.  They start on the table most of the time, and take cover behind/man the Aegis Defense line to operate the Comms

 

10 Paladins

- Apothecary, Brotherhood Banner, 4 Psycannons, 5 Halberds, 4 Hammers

^ These guys typically deepstrike, combat squad if needed (although I prefer to keep them together especially if I get the Portal psychic power on my Librarian so I can move them all together and give them all Feel No Pain)

 

5 Purifiers

- 1 Incinerator, 1 Hammer

^ These guys provide 2 psychic points, and probably arrive in the Stormraven, hopefully providing a forward spot for my Paladins and potentially my Interceptors to lock onto, and provide an assault threat coming out of the Raven.

 

5 Interceptors

- 1 Hammer, 1 Incinerator

^ They can either deep strike and run/shoot to Incinerator something, or they can start somewhere in cover (e.g. the Aegis defense line) and then teleport shunt into position to burn something.  Then they do their best to survive.

 

Question: would I be better off with 5 more Purifiers since the Interceptors can't take 2 Incinerators at size 5?  I could drop these guys and have 5 more Purifiers with a total of 3 Incinerators... PURGE THE DAEMON!!

1 Dreadknight

- Sword, Psycannon, Flamer, Teleporter

^ Awesome

 

1 Dreadknight

- Hammer, Psycannon, Flamer, Teleporter

^ The hammer is just b/c I had extra points... I'll probably ditch it unless I can find a great looking giant hammer to model up

 

1 Stormraven 

- Lascannon, Multimelta

^ anti-vehicle, anti-flyer, baddass thingy; brings the Purifiers into CC striking range

 

1 Aegis Defense Line w/ Comms

^ Gets my Deep Striking Paladins onto the table 8/9 games Turn 1 if I want them there, or can delay their arrival until Turn 2 5/9 games if I want to wait until the Teleport Homer is moved forward.  Sadly my Stormraven doesn't get to roll to come in on Turn 1 or I would love this thing to bits!  Still hopefully it prevents the annoying "Stormraven shows up turn 4 when the battle is already over" thing :)

[McNathanson]

winterman just saw your post... what do you think given the revised list?  Still try to Rhino the Purifiers and just let the 'raven be a fighter not a transport?  I could fit the Rhino by dropping a weapon off each Dreadknight...

[VonVilkee]

Okay I have a non list recommendation... Were you aware of the dreamforge leviathan kit? The have a small one and the aesthetic is spot on for Grey knights.

http://dreamforge-games.com/collections/leviathans/products/1-100-15mm-scale-leviathan-crusader

 

There are two scales the 15mm one here that is dread knight sized and the 28mm that is between imperial knight and warhound titan sized.

 

You are an experienced modeler so this kit is amazing! Metal screws that allow for full articulation in posing that will hold up to months of playing before you lock in a pose by gluing it

[fluger]

I'd go with more purifiers and no interceptors, personally.  I think what you have now is a lot more potent than the first iteration.  

 

Also, to be clear, I think this list is going to REALLY struggle against a lot of the top-flight tournament lists.  There's just not a lot it can do after dropping in to bring down some of the real big baddies of the tournaments scene.  

 

That being said, in most normal environs, you should be fine.  

[Psilence]

I actually like the first list better.

 

With the 2 NDK's and the big blob if interceptors the list is a little more focused and able to bring more points saturation/area superiority turn 1.  Also, the pallies statistically landing T1 is a bonus to the up front pressure.  Added to that, the transports in the first list will be fairly low on the target priority list (except for first blood) with all the big baddies close, and will win you games as they rack up points in your back field/allow troop mobility.

 

The second list is viable as well, and would give you better board control through mobility (late game).  And the raven is just cool.  /shrug

 

I would defiantly try to squeeze more psycannons into the paladin unit.  4 psycannons/storm bolters + prescience = good times.

 

I've always had issues with the 5 man power armor units preforming poorly.  Whenever possible I go for TDA.

 

The loss of +2 initiative on the halberds for the purifiers hurts a bit, you'll have to let us know how they do :)

[WestRider]

Terminators are a much better Troops option for GK now than the Strike Squads. At 33ppm, they're actually pretty worthwhile.

 

You can use Witchfire powers (including Novas) from the Fire Points on a Transport. Cleansing Flame from the larger footprint of a Rhino is just nasty.

 

Remember that the DreadKnights don't have a Force Weapon anymore unless you get a Sword or Hammer for them. The Fists are just regular PowerFists now.

[McNathanson]

Ahhh, great point, thanks WestRider, I totally missed that on the Force Weapons.

 

I'm pretty darn tight on points with the Stormraven, but I'll play with taking 5 Terms as my Troops.

[McNathanson]

Quick question: can the Purifiers in a Rhino use their Nova in the psychic phase and still fire two Incinerators in the shooting phase in the same turn?

[pretre]

Quick question: can the Purifiers in a Rhino use their Nova in the psychic phase and still fire two Incinerators in the shooting phase in the same turn?

yep

[andozane]

Wait, you can use a Nova from within a vehicle? I thought only witchfire powers could be used while embarked?

[Psilence]

Looks like witch fire only. P. 25/psykers and transports.

 

Edit -woops, looks like nova is a sub type of witch fire. So could be used :) awesome!-

[McNathanson]

Question on equipping/modeling my Paladins:

Would you put the Psycannons on the same models as the Hammers, or on the Halberds, or a mix of both?

I could argue that if they are all together in a single unit of 10, then I would want the Cannons on the Hammers, because I would want to remove them last as casualties, both in ranged and close combat. 

 

However if split into combat squads, I would think the Cannons should be with the Halberds, because the Hammers are more likely to be rushing into CC and in harm's way, and the Cannons could sit back.

 

Because of the Apothecary's FNP, and the Librarian running with them with Portal etc, I *think* I'll be running them as a single unit more often than not.  However since I have so few units in general I worry that I might end up with Combat Squads to improve board coverage especially on objective missions.

 

So, long story short: what would you do?  Put the 4 Cannons on the 4 Hammer models, the 4 Halberd models, 2 of each, what??

[McNathanson]

Right now I'm kinda leaning toward keeping the Raven but taking out the Purifiers and putting back in the squad of 10 Interceptors.  I just love their mobility and the turn 1 shunt move to move a Teleport Homer anywhere I want to drop my Paladins on turn 2 is just choice.  Here's what I'm thinking:

 

1 Librarian, L3, Tome, Hammer, Fury of Deimos (super storm bolter)

 

5 Grey Knights

- Rhino

 

10 Paladins

- Apothecary, Brotherhood Banner, 4 Psycannons, 5 Halberds, 4 Hammers

 

10 Interceptors

- 1 Hammer, 2 Incinerators, 1 Teleport Homer

1 Dreadknight

- Sword, Psycannon, Flamer, Teleporter

^ Awesome

 

1 Dreadknight

- Hammer, Flamer, Teleporter

^ dropped Heavy Psycannon to make points for a Rhino

 

1 Stormraven 

- Lascannon, Multimelta

 

1 Aegis Defense Line w/ Comms

 

It's a super aggressive list and the idea is that there is no way I can fight most bigger/badder armies straight up so I have to have the mobility to jump all over a subset of the enemy army before they can bring everything they have to bear.

[Psilence]

As far as equiping them your logic is sound.  Put the cc weapons you want to last the longest with the cannons.  Weather that is hammers for punch, or halberds for cleaning at initiative, is up to you :)

 

Keeping the unit whole (10) will allow it to stay functional for a longer period of time.  With model rotation (who is closest) you can shuffle you wounded to the back and take a few more wounds b4 beginning to lose models.

 

Just plop them down somewhere mid and make them a nuisance.  Add Draigo and the sanctuary power for lolz.  ;)

 

I like the list and think it will be fun to play.  My strikes where lackluster, but I never ran them in transports, so your experience with them may be better.