Peanut Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 ...are such a bummer. I really don't want to be so negative. I've been holding back. Tell me I'm wrong. But god the End Times sucks. Every new development feels sloppy. How can they think it's a good idea to smash together totally distinct armies? These armies have developed slowly over years, with new units being added slowly to maintain an army's look and playstyle. All of that is just thrown out when you cram everything together. Sure some armies need updates. So why not just update them? I don't want to add High Elves or Dark Elves to my wood elves. I don't want to run 50% lords/heroes, and it doesn't sound fun to play against. And I don't want a game that's more dependent on magic. I don't want to play Warmachine or Hordes, I don't want less and larger models. I probably shouldnt complain. But I really feel like my Warhammer enthusiasm is getting leeched out of me. Obligatory: It's probably not as bad as it feels like it is right now. Edit: Maybe I should try to make lemonade out of lemons or something. I don't know. Just venting some frustration/fear of change or whatever. It's probably going to be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Honestly it is a little sloppy becuase if the solid rumor guys continue to be correct this is just setting things up for 9th and giving a back story to why they are doing it. Honestly if they were already planning to drop army books and change the magic phase having these books released slowly giving us time to digest what is going on I think is a lot batter than them dropping it on us one Weekend before 9th comes out. What we are seeing is a portion of the new direction that 9th will take, for better or worse. I too have some reservations I have stated before but am waiting to see how this all unfolds. We will have to rethink how we play our game but with the changes I have seen so far I am super glad they didn't wait till 9th dropped to show us these. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 This feels like a new campaign in preparation for 9th. I think most of this will go away once 9th is released. Remember when Lothern Sea Guard armies and Dwarf Slayer cults were legal for about a year and then shortly after the next edition they weren't legal armies anymore? I have a feeling that this is just something to push out models to people for a few months until 9th is released. Who knows, I could be completely wrong, but I don't think this is going to be a permanent thing. I do like that chaos players have the ability to mix daemons, WoC, and beastmen together. Of all the combo armies right now, that makes the most sense. What sucks about the army combo's is that, as peanut stated above, their respective books weren't written for the combo's at the time of print and there are certain builds which are ridiculous. If all three elf armies can be combined, you can see some insane combo's. I already stated that I would love to take a unit of 20 Pheonix Guard w/Banner of the World Dragon. However, if people have a hard time dealing with non-engagement armies it can get even worse. Core slots could be filled with nothing but glade guard and dark riders. I know I'd drop my units of 10 down to units of 5 and just use them for re-directors and take off the xbows. Short answer: I feel and hear ya peanut! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I disagree, the End Times are awesome. They released this exact thing with Storm of Chaos YEARS ago. There were new lists and options that were outside the army books and legal in the tournament scene.YES, GW likes to play with and promote their new products by utilizing them in their tournaments, it does change the meta of the game for a bit, but I do agree with MN that this is only for a matter of time. The books and models are beautiful, the story is totally fun. You just gotta ask, "Are we playing End Times or Warhammer?" as I see them as two different things. The setting of the game takes place over thousands of years and each battle could represent any moment during that huge span of time, End times would be your "current/modern time" battle, whats happening now. Then in 6 months it will re-set with a new edition. Id just like the opportunity to play some classic chaos and deploy mixed armies. This is how I grew up playing and its nice to have those options back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The only thing i haven't liked so far is the addition of a 4-d6 magic phase from the latest book. I don't think anyone felt that magic was underpowered, and I can't see any reason for increasing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I agree with you Peanut. At least when there was the previous Storm of Chaos, those armies fit within the structure of Warhammer armies. Yeah, there was the Slayer Vanguard and the shooting for the SeaGuard but they weren't massive deals (unless the Seaguard had 8 bolt throwers...). Now, the End Times is doing things the other way where they're destroying the existing architecture for the new lists. I'm relatively optimistic that things will calm down in 9th and in the meantime have just decided to forgo any of the End Times bits until then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The only thing i haven't liked so far is the addition of a 4-d6 magic phase from the latest book. I don't think anyone felt that magic was underpowered, and I can't see any reason for increasing it.Agreed but I am still waiting to see how many dispell dice there will be. If it even the Two highest dice you can still stop a bomb spell and let others go. And the new Spells don't allow dispells but take about 5-6 dice to have a decent chance to cast. I see many players getting giddy with throwing lots of dice at spells, since they will have lots of them but only able to cast 2-5 spells depending on how many wizards are taking, then just watch the Miscasts start rolling. More dice=more miscasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 As someone who has realized over the years that narrative games are what it's all about (for me), the a End Times are a blessing. the throwback to the old Chaos army and the old Undead army are great. Admittedly, I'm not stoked about the magic rumors, but we'll see what actually happens. The fluff for the changes has been incredible. The a End Times will need tweaking by the tournament community for use in competitive play, but that is ALWAYS the case for GW rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 decent thoughts/opinions here! :) imo, i like singular armies but i was all for the marks for beastmen. god they needed SOMETHING, even if i didnt play them id be all for that. and im trying to be calm about it because the mixing thing can get some really dumb combos out there but im hoping as much as what many people are saying in this thread that its kind of a thing GW will do before 9th changes things. the 4d6 is silly, but its really the loremaster thing that tipped the scale for that one. lvl1s having access to any spell will make the magic phase a complete absurdity. you dont care about losing your lvl1 to miscasts and pink horrors lol. pink horrors become even more filthy. and if you cant dispell those super spells... dumb. just dumb. all of those spells are crazy besides the beasts one. i do agree with you id rather they just updated at least beastmen/brets and maybe even skaven(although they are competitive) and moved on to 9th. that being said im putting WoC bsb and festus in my lists for beastmen, excited about that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthweasel Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The only thing i haven't liked so far is the addition of a 4-d6 magic phase from the latest book. I don't think anyone felt that magic was underpowered, and I can't see any reason for increasing it. I have found it massively underpowered. My desire for magic to play a real role is doubtless part of it...but so too is the experience I have had where in the dozens of games played, there has not been one time it had a game deciding impact. Closest it came was in a 5500 point WoC v Skaven game where he dreaded 13th'd my Chaos Warriors with sorcerer and exalted off the table, replacing them with his rats who my extra units of knights instantly rampaged through...cost me a few points, making it only a 2000 point victory instead of a 3400 point...so not really any meaningful impact. so yeah, probably the only person in the history of Warhammer 8th to say this, but in games ranging from 500 points to 5500 points with most in the 2500-3000 range...magic is stupidly underpowered. Your experience probably will vary but someone has to be the exception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 In a typical game between 2k and 3k, I think magic is just fine. It's a little stronger in lower point games, and gets less and less useful as you increase. However, scaling up the number of dice available will make it overwhelming at lower point games, and change the level of it's fairness from 2-3k to higher point games which many players don't have time or models to play. This is my concern :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I feel like end time have made it easier for power gamers to make even more broken armies. However for the vast magority of people, and I hope for everyone on ordo, it allows people to play lists that are like Jim said, more for the narrative. I mean the changes to the magic phase are going to be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Well I know for myself there is some nice looking Wood Elf models I have always want to use and I just might do that with my DE. But I also don't run filthy DE at all, by internet standards they would call me a heretic. For me it will be about looks and not about breaking the game with powerful combos. But those Stags are cool! So I haven't done a solid color scheme yet and now I might rethink it. But first I want to read the story in End Times before putting it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 You guys are talking like this 4d6 magic phase is the thing now?..is that the new rule game wide? If so I can see a lot more players taking Lore of Undead on at least one caster.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 You guys are talking like this 4d6 magic phase is the thing now?..is that the new rule game wide? If so I can see a lot more players taking Lore of Undead on at least one caster.. We don't know for sure but from the WD pics it very well might be. But we are hoping it is just a scenario they are hyping up. Won't know till the book comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 My beef with EoT is all about price and GW's secrecy about where it is going (rules-wise, not fluff-wise). At $85 per book we so far have three books each with minimal rules, but rules that affect ALL armies. That means that each player should have access to these rules which leaves you at a "Play current ruleset" price point of $255... God forbid you need/want to buy the awesome new $100+ models to actually include in an army. And then, after spending a small fortune we the players do not know how valid the books will be in a year. Maybe GW could say "Hey, these books will roll us into 9th and be valid for the new edition", but no they just let everyone guess about it. And worse with people buying them up like hotcakes it tells GW not only is this okay, but it is profitable also. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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