FW super heavies in events

[Guest]

Just wondering, if I get one of these, am I likely to be denied from events because the model is a FW super heavy?

In particular, I've been looking at this guy:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Legion_Vehicles/CERBERUS_HEAVY_TANK_DESTROYER.html

 

He's a bit spendy, but I'm a huge land raider fan and I've been thinking my SM could benefit from a super heavy. Now if I buy it, I'd be hugely disappointed to be unable to field it. It was on the list legal for the GG cup, but I don't know how safe that list is in terms of models that will be legal in the future. I hate the idea of buying an awesome model, painting it even more awesome, then being denied to field/show it off in normal events.

 

[PourSpelur]

Not sure how many events use the LVO rules so I can't help there. If you do get it, I'd love to play against it! Awesome looking model. Land Raiders vs. Russes sounds fun too.

[Guest]

Not sure how many events use the LVO rules so I can't help there. If you do get it, I'd love to play against it! Awesome looking model. Land Raiders vs. Russes sounds fun too.

That does sound pretty fun. Russes would lose as given, but it could be a fun battle, . On a more serious note, it would mostly depend if we designed the list with AS LR Vs SM LR in mind. I think the uncommonly fielded Vanquisher LR would really be the main qualifier if the Russ army would win against the Raiders. I think without the Vanquisher, The land Raiders (as in, LR Phobos) would have an easy win without FW additions. Anyone's guess if FW is also allowed.

 

Does sound fun.

 

As for the rules, GG cup was using them this time. Any clue if they'd use them in the future? Between the OFCC and the GG cup, those really are the only events I'd really consider going to. I just despise the idea of buying that model only be denied it's use. I've already got a few models like that, very depressing.

[WestRider]

The BAO/LVO format does seem to be getting more common from what I've seen, and that does allow a good spread of the Super-Heavies. If that trend keeps up, it'll probably be fine.

[AbusePuppy]

Yeah. It's not universal at this point, but allowing a limited list of Lords of War choices is common to a lot of the larger tournaments in the west coast area and the Cerberus I believe is one that would typically be allowed (as it doesn't have any Ignores Cover blasts or other shenanigans.)

[Guest]

Yeah. It's not universal at this point, but allowing a limited list of Lords of War choices is common to a lot of the larger tournaments in the west coast area and the Cerberus I believe is one that would typically be allowed (as it doesn't have any Ignores Cover blasts or other shenanigans.)

It does have one really nifty bit, which allows it force super heavies to snap, but as it requires a penetration to do this, I think it won't cause issues, but there is much tactical value to being able to shut down blast/template shooting on a super heavy, even if you can't destroy it in a turn.

 

In terms of iffy balance, the vehicle is allow the "armored ceramite" upgrade, granting it melta rule immunity. Perhaps that's why it has rear AV13, it otherwise becomes immune to melta pens (S8 melta weapons, or S6 melta lance weapons).

 

Still, the coolest feature is that it is +1 on its own catastrophic damage table. Kaboom! Very fun.

 

EDIT: Side note, the SM vehicle upgrades in IA:2 second edition are pretty potent (Legacies of Glory, page 244). The very potent one, "Battle of Saresh," allows the tank to have both skyfire and interceptor (and a bunch of others) for a turn. Mind you, this one is intended for 6th (when skyfire+intercepter didn't mean snapping at ground targets), I think, but the idea that the S10 ap1 shot could have skyfire is very interesting. Upgrade is 60pts, once per game, and only applies to a single weapon.

 

Though, in fairness, the one I'm looking at is, "Burning of Prospero," which adds adamantium will to the tank, with a further +1 deny against witchfire powers. Makes a bunch of sense for an Exorcists Super Heavy...

[AbusePuppy]

Yeah, forcing superheavies to fire snap shots will, in most cases, deny them the use of all of the guns you care about. It's a very cool ability.

 

Armored Ceramite is a silly upgrade to have exist for superheavies, but there are still ways to kill it, so I wouldn't call it unbalanced. The vehicle itself is rather limited in its effectiveness against many armies, since it's really only effective against other big tanks.

[Guest]

Armored Ceramite is a silly upgrade to have exist for superheavies, but there are still ways to kill it, so I wouldn't call it unbalanced. The vehicle itself is rather limited in its effectiveness against many armies, since it's really only effective against other big tanks.

Dunno, compared to other super heavies, it really isn't that broken. No effect against lance, haywire, armorbane, D weapons, or smashing MCs, enthropic strike, or other AT solutions. Just melta. Other super heavies have Eldar Titan Holofields (like on the eldar super heavy tanks), the angled invulnerable save of the imperial knights, daemon rule, power fields, void shields or a few others. This guy does have smoke launchers, but that means not shooting...

 

I do think the armored ceramite being a pretty cheap upgrade for just about every FW land raider is an issue. Still, there are lots of ways to bypass heavy armor without melta and armies should not rely entirely on a single solution to high AV.

 

Back to the super heavy in question, It can be raised in cost to be more a threat to other unit types. Remember that as a super heavy it can fire each weapon at a different target, so I can add a pintle weapon (heavy bolter, heavy flamer or multi-melta) and a pair of sponson weapons (Lascannons or Heavy bolters), plus a hunter killer missile. I also have some fun anti-infantry potential with the catastrophic damage table at +1. It's still nothing compared to some of the super heavy options, but I can make it more specialized/versatile if I need to.

 

On a side note, as I read it, the LoWs are now in the same detachment thanks to the CAD, so I could potentially add Chronus if using the ultramarines chapter tactics, as this is a Space Marine Tank in the same detachment. Don't worry, I'm content with Black Templars. Doesn't come up in the GW FAQ because the only legal GW LoW for SM isn't a tank.

 

Any, I do agree, this guy has land raider syndrome. Pretty durable, not very much fire output, especially for high point cost.

[AbusePuppy]

Yeah, LoWs are technically part of your Combined Arms detachment, so stuff like Chronus and the Iron Hands chapter tactic theoretically work on them. I doubt most tournaments would allow it, though.

[Guest]

Yeah, LoWs are technically part of your Combined Arms detachment, so stuff like Chronus and the Iron Hands chapter tactic theoretically work on them. I doubt most tournaments would allow it, though.

Dunno how much an issue it would be. Chronus is a spendy 50pts that really only increases BS by a single point, as super heavies are already immune to shaken and stunned. Also, as a passenger, the odds that chronus dies when his super heavy "transport" is destroyed, goes up dramatically (S10, AP2 against passengers...). Yeah, probably not an issue.

 

As for IH chapter tactics, shouldn't be much of a big deal, as it will not die get's less impressive the more hull points you have (because it only repairs 1 per turn). The bonus to techmarine rolls can be more potent, but that means putting a fragile techmarine in base contact with the super heavy, which reduces it's mobility while also means that blast weapons directed at the super heavy have an extra bystander to hit for free. Not seeing a huge issue.

 

In the case of the above tank, chronus would do very little for the main weapon, as it's already twin-linked, but may help for the secondary weapons, if taken. The IH chapter tactics would only be impressive if the opponent was struggling to damage this tank - It will not die is amazing if they only can plink off an HP per turn.