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WHF Cheese Grater! Dice Age Games 1/31/2015


lustriangod2

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not really cheesy at all, IMO. just lots of stuff to kill for you all.

 

Nyx's Coven (Vampire Lord): Armour of Destiny; The Other Trickster's Shard; Obsidian Amulet; Aura of Dark Majesty; Fear Incarnate; Supernatural Horror; Beguile; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Death; great weapon; shield; Coven Throne 748

 

the Corpse Collector (Necromancer): Talisman of Preservation; Warrior Bane; Level 2 Wizard; Corpse Cart (Balefire) 255

 

Nefera (Tomb Banshee) 95

 

Al'Azeal (Tomb Prince): Obsidian Lodestone; Ironcurse Icon; great weapon; shield 156

 

Koffin Wood Ghouls (48 Crypt Ghouls): Crypt Ghast 490

 

the Raised Dead (30 Zombies): musician; standard bearer 100

 

Fellbeasts of the forest (5 Dire Wolves) 40

Fellbeasts of the forest (5 Dire Wolves) 40

Fellbeasts of the forest (5 Dire Wolves) 40

 

Koffin Wood Horrors (6 Crypt Horrors) 228

 

forsaken Souls (1 Spirit Host) 45

forsaken Souls (1 Spirit Host) 45

 

Koffin Wood Bats (2 Fell Bats) 32

Koffin Wood Bats (2 Fell Bats) 32

Koffin Wood Bats (2 Fell Bats) 32

 

Dragkar's Coach (Black Coach) 195

 

Terror of Koffin Wood (Terrorgheist) 225

 

2,798 points

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Drak,

 

Does undead legion make it so you don't need lore of vampires on the general?

i can answer this since ive read it: yes.  TK dont have to have lore of nehek and vc dont have to have vamp on general.   also no falling apart due to general death.  and i believe the march bubble is gone as well?  yea its pretty crazy.  Drak's list is actually one of the 'kinder' UL lists ive seen.  although CL and elf legions are probably worse.  just shoots every other army in the back of the head when you face them cause they dont really stand a chance against that OP stuff with regular armies.  glad its 'optional'... usually id bring my chaos legion list to events such as this but i wanted to see how dwarfs fare against this crazy stuff :)

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So I had a pet emergency come up really suddenly this afternoon and I unfortunately will have to miss the Cheese Grater tomorrow. 

 

I am BEYOND bummed, as I have been looking forward to this for months :(

 

My apologies to Mike and everyone else; I'm always talking about how much I wish there was more Fantasy in Vancouver, it kills me to have to miss this, especially last minute :(

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fun time guys.  but i will say this: i was reserved until i saw it, but dwarfs HATE end times khaine magic.... seriously its crazy good.  especially when matt told me that you dont break concentration.  i totally overlooked that, wow.... i dont think ill partake in that while playing dwarfs again.  but eh wanted to see how they fared.  really enjoyed seeing skaven play to their full filth :) next time you guys get my legion filth.  my doombull is hungry.  :)  

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The new magic rules were awesome, I really enjoyed what they did to the game. It just seemed to be more dynamic than the normal rules where people just 6 dice big spells. After 3 games in a row with the new set, Id consider NEVER GOING BACK. I like the new rules that much.

 

As for the Dwarfs, they have options and possibilities to stop magic just like any other army, we all have to defend in a magic phase too. Although the Dwarfs werent casting offensive spells, you were unloading with 7 war machines and we cant dispel those. Just gotta find the right balance. 

 

Great gathering of players yesterday, I had a blast, thanks!

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i made a 2800 beastmen/with sprinkles of woc for fun.  picture festus in gor with lvl4 beasts, lvl1 wild, lvl1 beasts with the +1 to cast bubble next to herdstone.   complete filth... hagtree fetish, viletide, spear, flock of doom and nurgle buffs/debuffs...  its basically 'what unit do i want dead'?  it feels wrong lol.

 

i disagree full-heartedly fixxer.  its great for skaven and most magical races with the toys, but essentially you're going to see dwarfs disappear in this format.  thats the big cheese for dwarfs there and its the only counter i have to that magic is with shooting.  unfortunately ONE SINGULAR magic phase does more damage to me than the entire shooting combined in that game from me... and i prevented you from getting cracks call off lol.  what can i take?  triple spellbreakers, valaya with +4 dispell, the steal a dice on 4+ rune(do you have any idea how much that costs?!)?  i wont even speak of the garbage anvil that cant recast things like all the other cheaters and i get no bonus to cast because GW words things stupidly.  then i essentially am giving away warmachines and hurting myself to stop 1-2 spells that you will just cast again with 2 dice.  i mean against skaven i can just bring my regular combo lists and id do fine against them, but id get destroyed by other things i stand a chance against with a gunline, like frazier's VC would crush my melee lists horribly and so would mike/art/matt.  i hate rock paper scissors and lack of the ability to have strategy to counter lists.  its not fun.   before end times the combo lists could at least stand a chance against other lists with correct strategy and a little forturne.   but i came in with the right mindsight with dwarfs not expecting a win at all and i got 2 draws and a win.  heck i was ecstatic with those results!  how many times does a dwarf gunline survive dawn attack LOL.  

 

i knew my only chance against skaven is panicing your grey sear away and failing look out sirs with templates.  but your spells neuteured my copters from doing damage to you(HUGE part of the game) and you passed all the lookouts/panics from Flame cannon. 

 

i know you will probably say 'tough luck' and 'you're whining and you didnt even lose' but i know how to run dwarfs now(ive learned a lot since our first game) and can see the bigger picture now. i was lucky not to have 3 losses tbh.  how would you feel if your army that you invested 1000+ bucks into was made nearly unplayable in the  blink of an eye by erratic rule changes?  dwarfs are an iconic army to warhammer(its not called 'the white skaven') and it saddens me that GW just decided to throw them to the bottom of the food chain with end times.  i wish GW gave a rats *** about balancing the races.   it really just takes, you know, EFFORT.  im all about adjusting to new rules, but when it comes to throwing an army to the curb that just kinda hurts and is frustrating ya know?

 

that being said... i had a BLAST yesterday.  enjoyed all my games and especially the opponents.  i like little tournaments like that where you can interact and hangout :)

 

PS: glad its just 'optional'.  gives more variety in game plays. i think if SoM is allowed i may test out a beast wizard with combo dwarfs.  that may be playable

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How can you say that Dwarfs are "nearly unplayable" in the new rules when you had two draws and a win? I thought they played fine, and TBH you had a chance to blow me out in our game. You simply werent aggressive with your Longbeards, irondrakes, or xboowmen in the middle of the battle. My slaves and clanrats wouldve stood no chance against any one of those blocks no matter the size. My big magic phase didnt happen until bottom of 3, and I advanced straight towards you each turn before, i really think that if you'd have threatened with the LBs it wouldve been over early. I had one threat on the right flank with my warlord, you certainly dropped their number to a reasonable level, but didnt chaff them with any of your copters. I really think that the dwarfs have options but they have to balance their shooting by charging stuff. 

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you know if those two games played out it would have been losses most likely.  and how can you talk about chaffing when my copters cant fly..... the one copter had a choice of chaffing that unit or killing the crack calls skitterleap guy.  had to take that chance with the overrun honestly.  my BIG mistake there was the engineer.  usually i use him as chaff when units get near but i forgot to move him second turn to get into postition.  and the longbeards died in magic.  i should have put the bsb in the drakes and pressed with the longbeards you're right, but you killed them all in magic so its negligible to think that would make a difference :(  .  the quarrelers on the other hand i need to learn how to play them correctly.  xbows are annoying with move or shoot.  they could have made a difference you're right.  but it was 3 turns.... i press with longbeards and you react accordingly keeping charge distance long and poof me in magic regardless.  also i had no idea where your assassins were.  i thought they'd be in that warlord block but i also didnt know if you'd play that risky since they were along the board edge and one panic and they are gone.   i appreciate the dissection of the game but i dont think i played it majorly wrong there.  im glad i finally got to see your skaven in action.  was really fun to watch tbh :)

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Fixxer, I'm kind of with DontPanic on this one.  If we used the full rules for End Times magic the following would have been valid:

 

1) Casting Fulcrums to make magic users not give two [big bad swear word]s about cannons.  The wizard is stubborn, ITP, 3++, immune to multiple wounds.  At this point, your threat can care less about taking 2 cannballs to the face (odds are that the hit is ignored).

 

2) End Times spells for wizards who are level 3+.

 

Those two things are too much for Dwarves to handle in End TImes.  If you read what the majority of those spells do, yeah, Dwarves don't really stand a chance once those spells are cast.  On top of what they do, they can't be dispelled (even if it's a remains in play spell).  Dwarves don't have access to those spells.

 

Here are two examples:

 

1) Lore of Life allows multiple units to regain 2D6+1 wounds by casting on a 15 (it's a vortex and your opponent can't dispel).  Who cares if you take 15 casualties from war machines if you can just res them and maybe have the vortex bounce back through a unit to gain more models back.

 

2) Lore Nurgle does 5D6 hits which wound on a 4+ with no armour saves.  If 10 wounds are scored then a free Greater Daemon of Nurgle is summoned.  If you cast this 4 times, that's 4 free greater daemons.  Good-bye Dwarf gunline!.

 

 

The only counter is that, as a dwarf player, you can take 12 war machines.  Unfortunately, this leads to a cluttered deployment zone which is just asking for a vortex.  I'm not saying that it's impossible for a Dwarf player to win, I just think that the average Dwarf player (85%) have to completely change their army lists when playing End Times because of how all the other armies get free "boosts" to their casters which now have the ability to take their augments and hexes to the next level.

 

In conclusion, it's an extremely difficult uphill battle for Dwarves playing in End Times.  It's as if they are the first assualt boats going towards Omaha Beach for the beach assault on Normandy

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