The new magic rules....

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I understand the lack of interest in the new magic system but I also am currious by nature and still want to test it out. So if anyone is up to a Fun Test game (I will bring an army I would normally run not one built to these rules.) I will be open. Right now looking at the rules in hand I can't tell if magic got more powerful or just more random and unpredictable. (Like it wasn't already.)

 

I of course got the book more for its fluff and scenarios but I have these rules.

[thatdave]

I foresee some loooonnnngggg magic phases ahead of us........

[Peanut]

I understand the lack of interest in the new magic system but I also am currious by nature and still want to test it out. So if anyone is up to a Fun Test game (I will bring an army I would normally run not one built to these rules.) I will be open. Right now looking at the rules in hand I can't tell if magic got more powerful or just more random and unpredictable. (Like it wasn't already.)

 

I of course got the book more for its fluff and scenarios but I have these rules.

 

I'd be down! Don't spose you have time Wednesday (tomorrow) evening? PM me if interested.

[thatdave]

Does it say on a different page (different than the one posted) that the single highest of the 4d6 rolled for the Winds of Magic is the Dispel Pool?

[JMGraham]

Haven't played with it yet, but in theory I don't hate the new magic stuff. Randomizing the number of dice you can roll after you decide the spell is going to make those huge spells harder to get off. The focus is going to be on the smaller buff spells, which I actually like. Interested to try it.

[wisetiger7]

To take another look at the stupid ET rules for magic, GW, in their utter insanity or incompetence, did not bring up the issue of army dispel attempts or dispelling for dwarfs. It specifically states that "you must roll a d6 to see how many dice a wizard can use to dispel a spell". So, by RAW, you can choose to dispel with your army and choose any number of dice in your dispel dice pool for your dispel attempt, and dwarfs can always choose the same way, meaning they never have to roll a d6 to see how many dice they can attempt the dispel with.

 

Furthermore, because it specifically says 'wizard' for both the d6 roll for PD and DD, it does not mention non wizards with bound spells or items with bound spells. So, apparently, when casting a bound spell with a non-wizard, again you don't have to roll the d6 to see how many you can attempt the roll with. The same with wizard-like characters that aren't wizards, like warrior-priests from Empire. They have channel attempts like wizards, but don't count as wizards. So they can cast their bound spells with any number of PD as normal. F***ing GW.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Does it say on a different page (different than the one posted) that the single highest of the 4d6 rolled for the Winds of Magic is the Dispel Pool?

No, the two highest of the 4d6 is your dispel pool. What I was saying is that just like the Caster the dispelling player also has to roll a d6 for the number of dice he can use to attempt to dispel.

 

Now that I have these rules in front of me I don't know what to make of it. The Casting player is going to have lots of frustrating phases and the DE Sacrifical Dagger just got Way better.

 

I will send you a PM Peanut. I will be availible tomorrow.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

To take another look at the stupid ET rules for magic, GW, in their utter insanity or incompetence, did not bring up the issue of army dispel attempts or dispelling for dwarfs. It specifically states that "you must roll a d6 to see how many dice a wizard can use to dispel a spell". So, by RAW, you can choose to dispel with your army and choose any number of dice in your dispel dice pool for your dispel attempt, and dwarfs can always choose the same way, meaning they never have to roll a d6 to see how many dice they can attempt the dispel with.

 

Furthermore, because it specifically says 'wizard' for both the d6 roll for PD and DD, it does not mention non wizards with bound spells or items with bound spells. So, apparently, when casting a bound spell with a non-wizard, again you don't have to roll the d6 to see how many you can attempt the roll with. F***ing GW.

As a side game and not the main rules I will just go with the RAI and talk it over with my opponent before game. Not worth beating my head or getting into RAW arguements for a Fun game. And I am sure most players here can manage that.

 

Now if someone wants to run an event with these rules, Good-f-Luck.

 

But yeah the rules should have gone to a Third Party for proof reading. But are you surprised?

[Threejacks]

Now that you have the rules Murphy,does it have any info on the sequencing of this die rolling stuff for casting?..as in when does a player decide to use additional spell dice from a device/item to add to a casting attempt?,Before the d6 casting allotment is rolled,before the dispel d6 is rolled?..or can it be done at anytime before the dice are actually thrown...

 

I could see this coming up a lot now.Magic items like these will be much more effective it seems.

[wisetiger7]

No, the two highest of the 4d6 is your dispel pool. What I was saying is that just like the Caster the dispelling player also has to roll a d6 for the number of dice he can use to attempt to dispel.

I still don't see where it gives any references whatsoever to how many dispel dice you get... Therefore, I believe that the total dispel dice in the pool (before channel attempts, stored dice, etc) is the highest 1d6, not the highest 2d6.

[thatdave]

I still don't see where it gives any references whatsoever to how many dispel dice you get... Therefore, I believe that the total dispel dice in the pool (before channel attempts, stored dice, etc) is the highest 1d6, not the highest 2d6.

 

I don't see where you get that.  

 

The page pictured above just says to roll 4d6 for the Winds of Magic.  The reason I inquired as to whether or not the rules gave a specific example of how many dice are in a separate Dispel Pool is, to me, it sounds like (with the info on that page) there are 4d6 dice in both the Dispel and Power pools.  The "take the highest d6" is in the BRB and is a 'normal' way of determining the number of Dispel Dice.  This End Times rule set says to do things differently from the BRB, as listed on the page in the pic.  I contend that, unless there is a specific mentioning elsewhere in the book, that the 4d6 is generating both the number of PD and DD.

[wisetiger7]

The 'Magic of the End Times' page states:

 

"Here is a brief summary of the changes made to the Magic rules. More detailed explanations follow that describe exactly how the rules have changed."

 

This page specifically details the changes. It does not state any changes to the rules for how to generate the Dispel Dice pool. Therefore, the original rules should take precedence.

 

To further back up this argument, MotET page does not list bound spells. Does that mean we simply do not use bound spells? No. That means we use the original rules from the BRB, because no changes were made.

 

Remember, this is a permissive ruleset, so it specifically has to say you can do it, otherwise you can't. It does not say you roll 4d6 for dispel pool. Therefore, you don't.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

The 'Magic of the End Times' page states:

 

"Here is a brief summary of the changes made to the Magic rules. More detailed explanations follow that describe exactly how the rules have changed."

 

This page specifically details the changes. It does not state any changes to the rules for how to generate the Dispel Dice pool. Therefore, the original rules should take precedence.

 

To further back up this argument, MotET page does not list bound spells. Does that mean we simply do not use bound spells? No. That means we use the original rules from the BRB, because no changes were made.

 

Remember, this is a permissive ruleset, so it specifically has to say you can do it, otherwise you can't. It does not say you roll 4d6 for dispel pool. Therefore, you don't.

Page 255 of my eBook states that when you declare a spell the Caster then rolls a d6 to see what the max number of dice he can use than the other player also rolls 1 d6 to see how many dispel dice he can use to attempt to dispel it.

 

Page 256 states that the Power Dice pool is generated by rolling 4 d6 and keeping the total and the Dispel pool is the sum of the two highest of that roll.

 

Not sure how different the page numbers are going to be from the Hard Back though.

 

I have the iBook on this very iPad I am typing on. I am not assuming, just quoting what the book says and I can quote it to the exact word of those two different paragraphs when I get home tonight for your reference later.

 

The rules read a lite like the old Dystopian Wars book, it references the same phase on two different pages but has a little bits here and there left out of one or the other so reading one page is not the whole rule. You have to read both. Very bad writing.

[McNathanson]

Ugh these rules sound very ill-conceived and sloppy.  

 

Personally, I'm not bored enough of 8th ed rules to start beta testing rules for GW :)

 

By the time 9th comes out I'm hoping they'll have put more thought into the rules changes!

[Raindog]

Ugh these rules sound very ill-conceived and sloppy.  

 

Personally, I'm not bored enough of 8th ed rules to start beta testing rules for GW :)

 

By the time 9th comes out I'm hoping they'll have put more thought into the rules changes!

x10

[wisetiger7]

@Murphy'sLawyer: You're totally right! I just picked up the book from Guardian. I was missing the second page for Magic of the End Times. It does say highest 2d6 of the 4d6 winds roll to determine dispel pool. Page 9 of the 2nd book for hardcopies.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

@Murphy'sLawyer: You're totally right! I just picked up the book from Guardian. I was missing the second page for Magic of the End Times. It does say highest 2d6 of the 4d6 winds roll to determine dispel pool. Page 9 of the 2nd book for hardcopies.

They even got the page numbers different from one media to the next. Nice.

 

I think the reason for all the confusion, mine included, was the poor format and writing in this book. Honestly I think the Head Guys gave the writers a limited time and a hard deadline for these books leaving proof reading and proper play testing something to desire. They have said, rumored of course, that 9th is all written already and has been for a little while now. I pray they take more time and a fine comb at this time to make sure mistakes like these don't make it in the end copy.

 

Side Note. My ET:Khaine just showed up to my LGS. So now I am wondering should I keep it for giggles, sell it for about the shelf price here or auction it on eBay? It is fetching a $130 on eBay. And the end time cards

[thatdave]

@Murphy - thanks, that is the confirmation I equals looking for.

 

@NtK and RD - I'm with you fellas!

[AgentP]

I have the book now, and am firm in my belief that the End Times have run off the rails.  And what's worse, I'm getting the sickening feeling that the end of all this will be Mazdamundi rewinding time so that 9th ed starts on the precipice of the end times, but will the players change the future and avert it?!  I swear to god, if they do that I'm out.

[valourunbound]

Side Note. My ET:Khaine just showed up to my LGS. So now I am wondering should I keep it for giggles, sell it for about the shelf price here or auction it on eBay? It is fetching a $130 on eBay. And the end time cards

 

I'll take it to the trashcan for you for $20.

[Krieger]

Just finished a game with the new magic rules and I love it.

[Talapas]

Not a fan at this time. Will post a review later.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

@Krieger. What was it that you liked and didn't like? Was it a one sided battle or did both players get a chance to have good magic phases.

 

@Talapas. Would like to see a Bat Rep and your opinions on it.

 

I hope to get a game tonight with Peanut and will post my thoughts on it after.

 

On a side note the fluff is a Love/Hate for me. The repeat of history was something I expected but the level they brought it to was almost odd. Will not spoil things for people but as far as I have read the Elves are in survival mode and realize that the other races matter. How long did that take?

[wisetiger7]

Only seven thousand years...

 

Though Teclis realized their usefulness long before, and thus taught the Empire magic and created the Colleges.

 

Edit: Actually probably more than seven thousand years, that's just how long Malekith has been stewing in his self-pity.

[Brother Glacius]

Do you have to determine the level you are casting a spell at before you roll the dice to see how many you get? or can you declare the spell, roll the dice, then say what level you are attempting to cast?