Hoo boy. Here we go. Competition and OFCC

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I for one think the Hosts and Organizers did a great job. I got to play a FW list that I would have not been allowed anywhere else to play. I got to play more games in on weekend then all year.

 

Did i have a few gripes yep,but those are on me not the event. I most likely would have not had any if i was not hung up on them in the first place and just enjoyed.

 

This event Is not about what I think the game should be about. But about the Our Love of the game and getting together with others that love it too. We may not all play the game the same way but we all do play it and love it and thats what counts.

 

And awards should not be hand out like name taggs to anyone that shows up. Awards are for those that stand out and go above what is expected of us. To hand them out like candy makes them meaningless and does not push us as players to try harder and get better be it our painting, playing, or attitude.

 

How many of y'all former OFCC award winners take pride in it. Would it mean as much if everyone who went there got one? I got a t-shirt for that. Next year i plan on working harder to get one,but then again why should i bother if eveyone gets one anyway.

 

 

But thats just my 2 cents take it for what it is worth.

I ended up getting a favorite opponent pin and a raffled prize becuase of it and that was way more than I expected to recieve. The Prizes and awards are going to happen anyways, I don't think that should change so much, bit as a mentioned before if there was a Mission Statement that all players are required to read before the event describing what OFCC is about and give a more defined comp system (yes they can be gamed, but having one is better than not, and if for no one else at least the oranizer's jobs will be that much easier.)

 

I still don't think it is the prizes or awards that brings out the competitive player in us but the attitude we walk in with. And having informed players aware of what OFCC is might help with that attitude we walk in with. Is it a perfect idea, no. Is the previous organizers to blame for anythin, no. There have been plenty of posts in the past with their views on what OFCC is.

 

But we have seen posters argue with them on what they mean, many never read those posts and there for are not sure of what was said or some probably read it and go "whatever" becuase they want their game their way no matter what someone said about the events purpose.

 

So having more concrete wording with more defined bounderies may seem hindering (Like traffic laws and background checks) but when an event gets larger there need to be more defined rules, even if it is unpopular.

 

Again just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

I ended up getting a favorite opponent pin and a raffled prize becuase of it and that was way more than I expected to recieve.

I got a cup that says OFCC. Love the cup. Pretty happy to get it.

[Guest]

How many of y'all former OFCC award winners take pride in it. Would it mean as much if everyone who went there got one? I got a t-shirt for that. Next year i plan on working harder  to get one,but then again why should i bother if eveyone gets one anyway.

 

I was suggesting unique rewards that the best players get to pick from before all those puny lesser players. Surly someone as amazing as yourself values the uniqueness of being first and picking the best award.

[VonVilkee]

It is a captains responsibility for the spirit piece there are resources available. Seeing that the organizers should require the reading of something is sad, as in theory it should already be done. Sometimes you have people slip through the cracks and issues are dealt with bit no no one wants to be called out so issues tend to be handled on the down low.

 

I brought a player one year who is very outspoken on the boards, I got some questions pre event asking if I was sure he was appropriate for the event. He walked away with a number of favorite opponent pins and my team won the coveted Marshall Johnson award (best thing I have). Ordo wants to give people chance and I applaud that.

 

You comp the event and personally I'll have a hard time coming. The lists are suppose to be the captain's responsibility as he is the first line of defense.

[Steel Angel]

I was suggesting unique rewards that the best players get to pick from before all those puny lesser players. Surly someone as amazing as yourself values the uniqueness of being first and picking the best award.

My post had none of those undertones you seem to implicate it had. I think your assuming I'm some elite player that doesn't want my award to lose value. well nope didn't win anything. I'm one of those puny lesser players and only had a 1-3-1 record,but that doesn't mean I want one handed to me either.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

From this thread alone we can all see the challenge the Senate has in front of them and why there is no easy answer.

 

But in the end the OFCC was still one of the best events I have attended so they already have a winning formula that just needs to be kept from being soiled. So good luck guys.

[scottshoemaker]

From what I was able to glean, the attendance question is really more about the economy of scale, ie more people mean a better venue, and more time at that venue.  Growing for growing's sake isn't really the agenda.

[fluger]

Correct.  

 

Also, this kind of hand-wringing about OFCC is par for the course with EVERY. SINGLE. OFCC.  

 

I'm actually shocked it took so long AFTER the event to have most of this stuff.  

 

Usually there's thread upon thread of hurt feelings bleeding all over the forum.  If this site didn't get hacked every year, we could go back to the inception of it and see people complaining about certain lists or about certain players or certain teams.  

 

This is really nothing new, and I don't really think there is any kind of crisis.  LH is entitled to his opinion, but Forgeworld and all the other things he's opposed to ARE being pushed into 40k in most events (especially on the west coast), and the people pushing it aren't really the competitive people as much as the fluff bunnies.  Frankly, OFCC is the PERFECT venue for a bigger sandbox of models because things get reviewed.  

 

Also, as someone that was ON the list rating committee, if you have a problem with a list that was submitted, please let me know.  I fielded a few critiques and I hope I answered them well.  

 

One thing to realize is that we took in all the team lists first and then judged the lists based on all the lists that were submitted.  So, if we had gotten a bunch of fluffy wet-noodle armies, we would've pushed back on even low level power lists, but the vast bulk of the armies were pretty tough, so we graded accordingly.  In fact, we asked one team to resubmit with tougher lists because they were looking at just getting crushed.  

 

To me, the goal of OFCC has, and always will be, an attempt at ensuring 5 great games.  That is it.  You can talk to the people that started this event (most are fantasy players), but the reason they started it up was because they kept bumping into each other at GTs and decided that instead of wasting time with other people and getting crap games, they could just meet up and play each other.  

 

This is why OFCC is invite-only and has lists checked.  We assume everyone is cool and we have a good idea that no one is bringing something super boring.  That's a pretty high-minded ideal, and will never be 100%.  

[CaptainA]

Some background info:

 

First year as a captain:

Told my team to make sure we toned down lists. Went to OFCC had a great time but saw a lot of what I would consider "harder" lists.

 

Second year as a captain:

Told my team to take what they wanted but nothing to crazy. Saw a lot of harder lists but had a great time. (Team took second in sports)

 

Third year as a captain:
Pretty much the same, left it to the list rating committee to say yay or nay. One list got through that shouldn't have. (much ofmy team hated maelstrom but whatevah)

 

Post:

So i've been a captain for three years and have enjoyed the OFCC. I don't think they should change the spirit at all, but would suggest some communication changes.

 

In three years I don't think I have gotten a primer email as to my duties. I saw a post that we should tone down peoples list this year after lists were turned in, but nothing substantial. I'd suggest the Senate crafte a basic email to send out to captains at the start of the OFCC season. Something that states teh captains duties and what they want from them in regards to helping shape their teams lists.

 

I'd also suggest that when players turn in lists, that they should also write a short blurb as to how it should function. I don't the the LRC foresaw how his list was going to function and how it would impact other lists. I know myself would proabably miss it so I'm not trying to poo poo the LRC.

 

Give more nay's to army lists both that are too soft (the guy with the foot ultramarines chapter that was wysiwyg from the book and highly innefectual but great army by the way in terms of sticking to the fluff :)), to lists that are too hard  (Frenchy's White Scare Space Wolf Deathstar.)

 

I think just those two would help bring things in more alignment with the "spirit" of the ofcc.

[Guest]

My post had none of those undertones you seem to implicate it had. I think your assuming I'm some elite player that doesn't want my award to lose value. well nope didn't win anything. I'm one of those puny lesser players and only had a 1-3-1 record,but that doesn't mean I want one handed to me either.

Nah, I was intending over the top sarcasm. I hope I didn't offend. I was in a pretty silly mood last night.

 

I was just pointing out that with a bunch of unique awards, with winners getting first pick, seems very different than everyone getting the same award, as you seemed to be describing. Might not have been addressing me at time, not sure.

[pretre]

I like the idea of an primer e-mail, introduction to the event. As well, the 'tell me what your list does' is pretty nice.

[Lord Hanaur]

LH is entitled to his opinion, but Forgeworld and all the other things he's opposed to ARE being pushed into 40k in most events (especially on the west coast), and the people pushing it aren't really the competitive people as much as the fluff bunnies. 

This is the part I cant agree with less.  There might be a couple bunniesi nthere somewhere.  i cant judge every mans soul.  but I can judge the fruit on the tree.  I seriously question the veracity of that.

 

And you've noticed they were pushed in and suddenly, several tournaments said "oh um...  yeah except maybe not this and matybe not that and maybe we made a slight error in allowing X and Y so THOSE arent kosher".

 

And the slippery slope is made manifest.

 

I dio not buy at all that any fluff bunnies are the driving force on this.  Just no.

[Lord Hanaur]

Post:

So i've been a captain for three years and have enjoyed the OFCC. I don't think they should change the spirit at all, but would suggest some communication changes.

 

In three years I don't think I have gotten a primer email as to my duties.

 

I'd also suggest that when players turn in lists, that they should also write a short blurb as to how it should function.

 

I think just those two would help bring things in more alignment with the "spirit" of the ofcc.

Both pretty solid suggestions.

[fluger]

And I disagree.  

 

Especially in the context of OFCC.  

 

Who would you say is the most competitive players that regularly attend OFCC?  Which of them brought something from Forgeworld?  

 

Look at the events that allow some Forgeworld, which of those are being won by Forgeworld stuff?  

 

The few places competitive players are pushing for FW inclusion are for armies which are seriously underpowered in general (or perceived to be) and wish to get a few buffs from FW, most notably: Nids.

[pretre]

 

 

And you've noticed they were pushed in and suddenly, several tournaments said "oh um...  yeah except maybe not this and matybe not that and maybe we made a slight error in allowing X and Y so THOSE arent kosher".

 

 

Citation needed. Most of the big guys came at it in a very measured fashion.

[pretre]

And I disagree.  

 

Especially in the context of OFCC.  

 

Who would you say is the most competitive players that regularly attend OFCC?  Which of them brought something from Forgeworld?  

 

Look at the events that allow some Forgeworld, which of those are being won by Forgeworld stuff?  

 

The few places competitive players are pushing for FW inclusion are for armies which are seriously underpowered in general (or perceived to be) and wish to get a few buffs from FW, most notably: Nids.

From what I heard, the lists that people most objected to were non-forgeworld.

[pretre]

On a side note, I think Nids may have just went up in power significantly  with the ability to take 5 flyrants in pretty low points lists.

[fluger]

Yes, special formations and multiple detachments both help a ton.  

[Steel Angel]

This is the part I cant agree with less.  There might be a couple bunniesi nthere somewhere.  i cant judge every mans soul.  but I can judge the fruit on the tree.  I seriously question the veracity of that.

 

And you've noticed they were pushed in and suddenly, several tournaments said "oh um...  yeah except maybe not this and matybe not that and maybe we made a slight error in allowing X and Y so THOSE arent kosher".

 

And the slippery slope is made manifest.

 

I dio not buy at all that any fluff bunnies are the driving force on this.  Just no.

I myself am big on fluffy. anyone who played against me will confirm this. My army list was given to each with over 10 pages of background fluff. all my characters where named and had a background. This was made even more special to me because of my FW list and that it was not just another cookie cutter list.

 

What it boils down to from what i'm reading here, and all the big fancy verbiage posts from some seem to add up to this.

 

" You don't play the way I want you to so that makes it bad." Now while everyone one has the right to their opinion and should be respected for it and not flamed.

 

Ones opinion is not better then anyone elses just cause it's yours.

[WestRider]

I can only speak to a small slice of the event here, but the only FW I've faced was mostly in line with anything else. Von Vilkee's Land Raider Achilles could possibly have been part of something really nasty, but in that list, it's obnoxious but far from overpowered.

 

I would say that the strongest list I went up against this year was actually the first Sentinels of Terra list, just one CAD, no Allies or anything like that.

[Lord Hanaur]

I don't think anyone claimed you needed Forge World to beat face.  That you can win without Forge World is an argument against allowing it, not FOR allowing it.  Ability matters.

[VonVilkee]

Yeah that Achilles... Only have it cuz ofcc allowed it, and the stars aligned. It is painted and I love it but it has major challenges if played to the rules. It's challenges however are very easily whoops overlooked and played wrong.

 

This is a big thing with the ofcc it draws some of the garage gamers out to an event. You get those of us that play multiple games a month paying those that get fewer games the rest of the year than they play at ofcc. This causes perception issues with lists as well as what just gets taken. Love the event tho it always shakes out better than the before or after battle looks sound.

[pretre]

I don't think anyone claimed you needed Forge World to beat face.  That you can win without Forge World is an argument against allowing it, not FOR allowing it.  Ability matters.

What now? 

[PourSpelur]

I'm a fluffy bunny.

I want FW because it gives me even more fluffy bunny choices.

Yes, I could pick face smashing units from FW. I could also take them from a million other places too. I see where the NOFW voices are coming from but I just don't understand the argument.

[scottshoemaker]

I really like FW being included.  It allows some great models to be placed on the table.  It also filled in some gaps in lists and allows for armies you won't ever see otherwise. 

 

I'd agree that the older FW stuff tended to be undercosted for what it does, but that trend is changing.

 

You'd better belive anything I run will have FW allowed. If you're not OK with that, don't play. I don't play this game to win. If I want to feel like a champion I'll go home and sex with my wife.