ratrek Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 LOL I should send you some of the conversations form play testing back in the day ML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 LOL I should send you some of the conversations form play testing back in the day ML Let me guess, History repeats itself again and again? Wouldn't surprise me in the least. But it would be entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Let me guess, History repeats itself again and again? Wouldn't surprise me in the least. But it would be entertaining. Not so much that, just the contraints the designers were under. Common phrases included "Yeah, I know it's bent. Can't change it" "Marketing requires this to be better" "The book is at printing already and we can't make that large of a change. No, it doesn't matter that the amount of words or the spacing on the page is the same. They charge us by word changed by book printed" "It's bent? Well, whatever. People will still have fun" And these were ones that cared about balance and want things in line the best they could. You should see some of the tirades from some of the testers over the Ratling Gun and the introduction of the Skaven SAD. They are Skyrim Epic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Ah, the good ol' days of the (in it's prime) Ratling Gun - I rolled up 20 hits one time lol. I never played a SAD list, but I do remember the hate for it. Good times. Edit: I never sued with a SAD list I should say. I faced a couple; they were the bane of my Khorne legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Now, I know there are a lot of people who have already spoken out against the army combinations. But I sti have some to add. Skaven are one of GWs few truly unique IPs. I really don't want them to be combined with Orcs or Lizardmen, because they will lose some of their uniqueness. On the other hand, I will gladly run a steg in parallel with my doomwheel. They'll run up a flank together. What could possibly go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Personally if I have to choose between individual books which languish for multiple editions, or combined books which change the way armies are built but at least are well-executed, I'll take option B.If Empire and Bretonnia and Dwarves or Ogres or whatever are combined I say, great! I've always found it weird that my Bretonnian Duke couldn't convince his neighboring Empire Elector Count to sell him some better armor for his Knights, anyway ;)Come to think of it, combined Elves is fine by me too, it should finally stop the inter-army-book comparison and whining haha! Ostensibly all this is driven by a need to reduce development and maintenance costs, and I'd WAY rather GW do so by combining books, than by eliminating whole races or leaving books unrevised for 3 editions of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Now, I know there are a lot of people who have already spoken out against the army combinations. But I sti have some to add. Skaven are one of GWs few truly unique IPs. I really don't want them to be combined with Orcs or Lizardmen, because they will lose some of their uniqueness. On the other hand, I will gladly run a steg in parallel with my doomwheel. They'll run up a flank together. What could possibly go wrong? You missed a glorious chance to go one better: A Stegadon inside a doomwheel instead of rats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I don't know that they would be a combined army in the way the Elves and Chaos are, but I would think a combined book. As in one book with multiple, separate armies in them. How the armies, especially the "non-related" ones, would interact if they were to combined into a mixed race list is unknown. At least at this point, but only GW knows what the final outcome will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Warhammer: Everything Every unit in one $2000 book! ($1990 for the digital edition) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Warhammer: Everything Every unit in one $2000 book! ($1990 for the digital edition) Ha! I was referring to the combined in to one book from 2-3ish books, not the whole lot. Though Warhammer did start out that way oddly enough. If GW goes far enough back in the regurgitation machine we might just get there again........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 im a little pessimistic about GW's listening skills of people who love the game vs their own deals in 'the laziest way to push models' approach. they screwed up 40k it sounds like, so im not too thrilled about the direction end times is going as well... we are geeks of fantasy and as human beings we pride ourselves in individuality so why would we want our warhammer like our politics? vanilla? nah thats why we play this game is for unique fun things and character! but eh my opinion obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 So far the only change im not too sure I want to play with is the magic rules...they just seem a bit too random and not needed plus adding more time to a phase of the game that seemed just fine to start with. I look at the new army combos as just fantasies version of 40k`s allies matrix but from what im hearing here from you long time players is that GW may actually cancel some of the current single army books and release new books with combined armies.Not sure if I like that direction and actually I would think they would want to keep the armies as individual as possible to sell more books and models.My reasoning being that there always ends up being unit selections within armies that are rarely used and the larger the unit selection the larger the pool of unused units would be. Other than above I really like the allied army options..its more selection to throw into the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 So far the only change im not too sure I want to play with is the magic rules...they just seem a bit too random and not needed plus adding more time to a phase of the game that seemed just fine to start with.I look at the new army combos as just fantasies version of 40k`s allies matrix but from what im hearing here from you long time players is that GW may actually cancel some of the current single army books and release new books with combined armies.Not sure if I like that direction and actually I would think they would want to keep the armies as individual as possible to sell more books and models.My reasoning being that there always ends up being unit selections within armies that are rarely used and the larger the unit selection the larger the pool of unused units would be.Other than above I really like the allied army options..its more selection to throw into the mix.GW's been mentioning they might combined armies into one book instead of dropping them becuase of their unpopularity. And trust me I know. I also am not sure they will be able to combine all the armies, like Ogres, O&G and Skaven, with the same justifications they have for the ones that have already. So don't count them out yet. Also the current Magic Phase does need a little tweaking. There are some spells that have been need Nerfing since 8th came out. But an overhaul does seem unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm hoping that the magic phase settles somewhere in the middle. The new version really would need very little changing to be much more reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJP Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm 'cautiously excited' about more of a historicals approach to army lists; here's a bunch of units, here's a few army lists that you can build armies from to represent different areas, times, and special story/character things. An elf book with a bunch of elf units, then lists for High Elves, Dark Elves, and Wood Elves (pre reconciliation), lists for the opposing armies of Malekieth/Teclis and Tyrion (spoilers), and one for the forces of the new Phoenix King. The same for the armies of Chaos. Separate, combined, ones for special characters or situations. A book for Armies of Men and Dwarfs - Empire, Bretonnian, Dwarfs, combined, etc. No idea what will actually happen, of course. In summary, neither super-hyped nor super-dismal about it. We'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm 'cautiously excited' about more of a historicals approach to army lists; here's a bunch of units, here's a few army lists that you can build armies from to represent different areas, times, and special story/character things. An elf book with a bunch of elf units, then lists for High Elves, Dark Elves, and Wood Elves (pre reconciliation), lists for the opposing armies of Malekieth/Teclis and Tyrion (spoilers), and one for the forces of the new Phoenix King. The same for the armies of Chaos. Separate, combined, ones for special characters or situations. A book for Armies of Men and Dwarfs - Empire, Bretonnian, Dwarfs, combined, etc. No idea what will actually happen, of course. In summary, neither super-hyped nor super-dismal about it. We'll see. See, that sounds like a good idea. What I have a problem with is how GW has just been tossing these armies together. If there is some thought put into it, I will be happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 See, that sounds like a good idea. What I have a problem with is how GW has just been tossing these armies together. If there is some thought put into it, I will be happy.I agree with you and TJP. I am hoping if combined arky books come out they have had plenty of thought put into it,we don't need some of the weird combos that we can do now with ET. Also the Elves will need a big makeover in the new book due to some of the events that happened. A good number of units lost their holy support and their reason for fighting has taken a 180° and needs adjusting to fit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 DARK ELVES ARE ALWAYS IN CHARGE! LONG LIVE THE WITCH KING! ALL SHALL FEEL HIS WRATH!!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 DARK ELVES ARE ALWAYS IN CHARGE! LONG LIVE THE WITCH KING! ALL SHALL FEEL HIS WRATH!!!!!Ahh, hello. It's Enternity King. God, Witch King was like sooo last month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 So, he should be renamed....Malekith the conquerer of cannons! It will take 10 cannon wounds to kill him and he only suffers a single wound from heroic killing blow, he still has a 2++ against non-magical attacks.....uh yeah, I'll be using him soon! All this for only 1000 points. F' you Nagash, I have the answer for you. Then, when you think you got Malekith cornered or contained...nope, he just takes a free 20" ethereal move. OMFG is all I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 So, he should be renamed....Malekith the conquerer of cannons! It will take 10 cannon wounds to kill him and he only suffers a single wound from heroic killing blow, he still has a 2++ against non-magical attacks.....uh yeah, I'll be using him soon! All this for only 1000 points. F' you Nagash, I have the answer for you. Then, when you think you got Malekith cornered or contained...nope, he just takes a free 20" ethereal move. OMFG is all I have.What are you talking about, he'sjust Karl Franz but better. Yeah, he's pretty retarded. When I was reading Karl I couldn't believe how good he was and now Malekith is near unkillable Lore Master that throws down harder than an Ogre mounted on a breath weapon dragon. OMFG doesn't even touch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I haven't seen the rules for Mr. Franz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I did some more thinking. I don't think the douche magoos at good ole g-dub thought this end times khaine through. However, there's this....cauldron of blood+white lions+banner of the world dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Good thing we aren't douche magoos like they are, and won't abuse the elven legions. In played against an elven legion army last weekend at spdm5 and it was a good list but it was no way shape or form WAAC. The nastiest part was he included the allarielle. She is quite good. Was a great game tho and the guy got my favorite opponent vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 MN: Franz is murderous. 10 attacks, any hit autowounds with no armour saves and each wound does D3+1 wounds. 8 wounds for Franz, 4+ Ward, Magic Res 2, Lightning Bound Spell that fires off three times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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