MexicanNinja Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Have fun in bubble world. Oh, I will, and I will chew bubble gum while playing in bubble world! I can't wait for the release to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 How are only having 6 armies available a bad thing? How many army book do you typically see being represented at a 10-20 person tournament? Here's the "norm": Wood Elves High Elves Dark Elves Warriors of Chaos Empire Lizardmen Other than the above, others are hit and miss. Even then, the first three listed above could easily be in a single book. Empire, Dwarves, and Ogres could easily fit into a single book. Just because there are only 6 "main" armies won't mean you still won't get the variety. I mean besides the rumor that it'll remove a huge selection of units and the different races aren't as easy to count-as as LOLELVES, there's not a whole lot wrong with it. That list, however, is a pretty gross misuse of heuristics. DoC and Skaven historically have a rather large international presence and even the (larger) tournaments in the PNW tend to have a decent spread of armies. Hell, WE aren't even that popular and haven't been for a very long time so I'm confused why you list it at all beyond local-meta-blindness. With the exception of BM and TK there has been a pretty solid representation of every race at the larger events and even outliers like these are caused more by perceived power level and have little do with variety. I guess the biggest issue with lowering the army number in terms of gameplay is that, if GW continues to not give a [big bad swear word] about their rules, fewer armies make their mistakes a lot more costly. If there are six armies and two are at HE/DE power level and two are at BM/TK level then we're going to have a much larger problem than we do now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I mean besides the rumor that it'll remove a huge selection of units and the different races aren't as easy to count-as as LOLELVES, there's not a whole lot wrong with it. That list, however, is a pretty gross misuse of heuristics. DoC and Skaven historically have a rather large international presence and even the (larger) tournaments in the PNW tend to have a decent spread of armies. Hell, WE aren't even that popular and haven't been for a very long time so I'm confused why you list it at all beyond local-meta-blindness. With the exception of BM and TK there has been a pretty solid representation of every race at the larger events and even outliers like these are caused more by perceived power level and have little do with variety. I guess the biggest issue with lowering the army number in terms of gameplay is that, if GW continues to not give a [big bad swear word] about their rules, fewer armies make their mistakes a lot more costly. If there are six armies and two are at HE/DE power level and two are at BM/TK level then we're going to have a much larger problem than we do now. I am based my post off local meta. Why? The meta outside my area of gaming does not effect how the game is played at the locations I currently play. If the armies stay combined and TK still have access to VC stuff it isn't an issue like it has been. The same goes for BM if they are able to combine with WOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Uh, yeah it does MN. Swedish Comp. Only based off data from Swedish events yet most of the major scenes in the world use it to a fairly regular degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I am based my post off local meta. Why? The meta outside my area of gaming does not effect how the game is played at the locations I currently play. If the armies stay combined and TK still have access to VC stuff it isn't an issue like it has been. The same goes for BM if they are able to combine with WOC. Yes I know you based your previous post solely off your local meta, but the problem arose when your original post was framed in such a way that it wasn't about just your local meta. Even as far as lofty Seattle has a completely different meta than yours. Also I did state that, as long as the number of units isn't decreased, six total armies isn't that big of a deal. My problem was that you wrote a post seemingly about the general state of the WHFB that wasn't based in fact. Yes, I realize you're biased by your local meta and that we all are to a certain degree, but you can't say How are only having 6 armies available a bad thing? How many army book do you typically see being represented at a 10-20 person tournament?...Other than the above, others are hit and miss.... and then backpedal to say you only meant your local meta. To restate my answer to your original question, dropping to only six armies could have a rather large impact on the overall meta due to problems like racial squishes where I can't find suitable count-as units for my existing models (e.g. the Ogre/Human/Dwarf amalgam) and the fact that GW isn't very good at (and has stated a lack of interest in) external balance between armies. Again if the army squish is no more than what has been happening in the End Times with limited releases off of the current army renewal cycle and army books being combined into monstrous tomes then I don't see much of a problem, but that may not be (and is hinted at not being) the case. Invalidating whole ranges of models beyond a few token units and pushing the importance of external balance in a game run by a company that doesn't care about that could be huge issues. So if you're looking for problems those are two that could soon be negatively influencing both your meta and everybody else's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Guys, I know it's easy to get drawn into a debate rather than a discussion (just as dkieft how much of a d1ck I can be) but I'm betting nobody, including ya'll, wants to get negative up in hurrrr! Lighten up please :) Speaking of lightening up, my main issue continues to be the round base thing! I mean, we're all free to keep playing 8th, to hold 8th ed. tournaments, etc., but it's gonna be pretty hard if we can't use the same models in both systems... any clever ideas? I was thinking about round bases in square movement trays working "ok" (except of course for the frontage change on 20mm models...) Hmm.... I know, somebody make a convertible, 3d-printable base and make yourself rich :) (and by rich I mean of course having enough money to buy all the GW armies you want) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 If players could find a way to base their models on a magnitized piece that was thin enough you could then magnitize the bases (which we already do) and maybe add a pin then you could switch them from a round to a square. Wow, that would not be easy, but it would be the best looking. Honestly I am going to have different armies for the different systems. My Dark Elves will be my 8th ed army and I will convert my Orcs over for the 9th ed after the book hits. My Empire might be sacrificed to pay for the new rule book and what nots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Guys, I know it's easy to get drawn into a debate rather than a discussion (just as dkieft how much of a d1ck I can be) but I'm betting nobody, including ya'll, wants to get negative up in hurrrr! Lighten up please :) Shut up Jerk! Honestly I am going to have different armies for the different systems. My Dark Elves will be my 8th ed army and I will convert my Orcs over for the 9th ed after the book hits. My Empire might be sacrificed to pay for the new rule book and what nots. I would not start any serious conversion plans yet (I know you aren't, just sayin), But in general, if the game moves to strict skirmish/round base as some of the rumors mention, I probably won't be joining it. Not saying I won't try it and give it a chance, but I have zero interest in major overhauls to make my armies playable. This is very much a time and money issue, and the more that becomes obsolete in the new edition, the less I care about it (all rumor based at this point, but it is on my mind). I do hold out some hope though, when 8th was coming out there were a lot of rumors about obsolete units and "sky is falling" rule changes, and 8th turned out to be the best edition of WFB ever... so there you have it. Also I wonder if rumors about bubbles may be greatly exaggerated... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Oh no. Not switching or anything till the 9th ed rule book hits my table. I am just looking ahead for the possibility of the game switching over. I honestly am trying to keep an open mind about the new edition but I am thinking of it as a new game and will see if I have to change any bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 oh its this discussion again... can we just wait til 9th comes out and put the freakout on the backburner and enjoy our regular battles until then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yeah! Let's at least ride this horse until it dies. Then we can beat on it! Where did our beating a dead horse imogie go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 oh its this discussion again... can we just wait til 9th comes out and put the freakout on the backburner and enjoy our regular battles until then? We could but this forum has been so dead lately and let's be honest, we are having a rational discusion. It's not the freakout that it was and this thread is about the End Times. But I understand people wanting this discusion going away but it is the biggest concern for every player on the forum. Some don't want to voice their opinions, some don't believe the rumors (and are praying) and others are voicing their concerns as a way to deal with and work out the possible outcomes. So even though it might get old it is the biggest thing happening to Fantasy since 8th was released. And as the release gets closer expect more of these conversations to happen. If we start fighting over these rumors then we need to step it back some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 ...but it is the biggest concern for every player on the forum.. No it's not. I am more concerned about getting my 30 Corsairs painted before the Cheese Grater and then what army to get ready for the brawl. Honestly, I could care less about every rumor for 9th. I'll still play the game regardless of what happens, and if people leave the game gripping then so be it. I saw roughly a dozen people from the LGS walk after 3 games of 8th and I didn't let that effect my choice. All I can do is get the rulebook for 9th (when it does finally hit the shelves), read the rules, and find the people who want to play it. If people don't want to embrace 9th or play 9th then they can stick with 8th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 No it's not. I am more concerned about getting my 30 Corsairs painted before the Cheese Grater and then what army to get ready for the brawl. Honestly, I could care less about every rumor for 9th. I'll still play the game regardless of what happens, and if people leave the game gripping then so be it. I saw roughly a dozen people from the LGS walk after 3 games of 8th and I didn't let that effect my choice. All I can do is get the rulebook for 9th (when it does finally hit the shelves), read the rules, and find the people who want to play it. If people don't want to embrace 9th or play 9th then they can stick with 8th. Well you are normally the one with the different opinion so I don't doubt it. I guess I should have said "Most" instead of "everyone". But regardless you are right about one big thing, we should keep playing through all the rumors that will pour out over the next 4-5 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 ML, you know I enjoy our games, talks, and discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 I like following these discussions:) Im wrapping up the read on Glottkin now and looking forward to the Khaine book.Havent purchased Thanquol yet but I certainly will soon. Still pretty stoked for what could be happening to the game,though I do have a rather optimistic view of things and I for one don't think any armies will be removed entirely,Consolidation,yes.It just seems to be the cycle for all game systems both online and offline..They nerf and buff stuff as the years go on and that basically works out to be the users "new content"...what is removed often makes a comeback at some later date in the life of the game.OF course games die off as well but I don't see WHFB doing that. Exciting times for WHFB this year! Im kinda missing Fantasy already and ive only played 4 games of 40k over the past few weeks..having a hard time getting into it really.I like my new list im running but just not "feeling" it I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm with you 100% Rcnjack... I like 40k and always try it and find it just doesn't stoke my imagination and motivate me to model/paint/etc the way Fantasy does. I'm also stoked for 9th and also loving playing 8th. So if 9th is radically different enough that it doesn't give that larger scale strategic feel that 8th does, I'll be one of those guys trying to play both systems. Which brings me back to convertible bases. MLs idea is about the best I've heard of but I worry that a) they won't look good and b) they won't hold strong enough to play with easily. Still it seems about the only approach because the diagonal on a square base is wider than the diameter of a round base, while the edge is of course shorter at least for 20mm bases. Still I think a 20mm square with flat (as opposed to sloped) 90 degree sides, and slightly rounded corners, with a round optional surround would be feasible for 25mm+ rounds. I'm obviously looking for an excuse to take out a small biz loan adn buy a 3d printer here so help me out fellas ;) This weekend as I drifted off to sleep, my thoughts wandered, first to fighting dkieft of course, then to hugging it out, then... to writing a new game system, model-compatible with 8th, and I started really wishing my wife would quit being so lazy and just make my alimony payments for me so I could quit my job. That's all for this morning. I would apologize for the off-topic, meandering post, but as ML pointed out, this forum is pretty dead so whatever :PIs it OFCC time yet?!? NtK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 When isn't it OFCC time? How are your Bret's recovering ;) Have the Grail Knights figured out how to ride horses yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Book finally came, now I get to read all of the hate first hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 When isn't it OFCC time? How are your Bret's recovering ;) Have the Grail Knights figured out how to ride horses yet? Even prior to our game I was thinking about firing the Grail Knights, but after that game, they are in timeout to think about what they've done! Overall though, the brave peasants (and their Knightly baggage train) of Ordo ab Chao are doing just fine thanks, and they feel pretty good about their only loss so far being to cheater Dark Elves ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Dark Elves don't cheat......wait, what? Shouldn't the Grail Knights be in timeout to think about what they failed to do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 So as far as I can tell, Thanquol's staff doesn't grant a bonus to casting the 13th spell, as it isn't part of the lore of ruin or plague. Excellent work, GW :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisetiger7 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 So as far as I can tell, Thanquol's staff doesn't grant a bonus to casting the 13th spell, as it isn't part of the lore of ruin or plague. Excellent work, GW :) Ya, I noticed that too. At least Boneripper is a Large Target. Glottkin still isn't... And that means Glottkin can hide behind a fence... And his Inspiring Presence is only 12" pahahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 So as far as I can tell, Thanquol's staff doesn't grant a bonus to casting the 13th spell, as it isn't part of the lore of ruin or plague. Excellent work, GW :) I feel that was intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 So as far as I can tell, Thanquol's staff doesn't grant a bonus to casting the 13th spell, as it isn't part of the lore of ruin or plague. Excellent work, GW :) Just wait for the FAQ. Tee hee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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