Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 So for the last couple of years I have wanted to try out an Ogre army but stayed my hand becuase of the start up cost. Now lately I have been going through my game stuff and realize I have to sell off the excess. If I can scrap together enough I might be able to start a 1500 point army. I believe the Battalion Box is the best deal and then fill it out from there. But which way? I thought Gnoblars might be a fun add as a speed bump and redirecters while a Firebelly would be good for Hordes of Thinlinings. (I know these are not the most competitve units but they look fun.) Need to look at what I am selling and then I might have a clue as to how much I can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Great choice! I have only recently started my Ogre army but have been having a blast with both playing and painting them. Here are my limited thoughts: 1) Gnoblars with trappers- they are tricky. I like what they offer and can have some uses. I use a block to screen my Stonehorn from failing a frenzy test to get stuck out in the open. 2) The firebelly is awesome. I like to run mine in a unit of leadbeltchers for some added firepower in the magic phase. Depending on my Slaughtermaster build, I sometimes give the firebelly the ruby ring as well because what's better than one fireball? Oh yeah, two! 3) I have greatly appreciated what a hunter inside a unit of sabretusks can do. That is just nasty because you can cause problems for opponents really fast with the vanguard and the 12" march turn one. 4) The stonehorn has been my MVP in nearly every game. That thing is a beast in it's own right, and when paired with a block of bulls for a combo charge, the carnage is insane. I just really love how Ogre's play. Honestly, it's nice to play this army after playing Dark Elves because it's not as complicated. Also, I strongly believe that gut magic is one of the best lores out there. That spell list has the potential to make Bull's into killing machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thanks MN, that's pretty much what I thought so far. Glad to hear the Firebelly has served you well. I haven't seen him on the table yet and he looks great. As for the Gnoblars yes, they are lesser than Night Goblins but if I have learned anything thing from O&G it is that never underestimate the little guys. They give up few points and can hold down units right when you need them halted. Will they die a horrible death, oh yeah, but if they can prevent a double charge on my main bunker for a turn they earned their points. They also don't cause panic checks when they flee through my other units which is money. Also with all the possible changes coming I think O&G and Ogres might be some of the safest armies to own right now. My Elves and Empire are stuck in limbo till early summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 My suggestion is to take gnoblars in units of 10 with the trapper upgrade. They just need to kill things when they get charged before they die. Something else I found usefull are bull darts. Units of 3 bulls can clear out chaff, fast cav, and give you a small mobile flank charger. They're also good for providing hard cover to your main units and can act as redirectos as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Yeah, Firebellies are widely considered a very powerful unit so I'm not sure where you were getting that they're weak. In fact, a fun thing to do with them is just run 2xFirebellies and no Slaughtermaster/Butchers at all. It frees up points for fun things like Tyrants and since OK have access to such powerful anti-magic abilities it doesn't really hurt them all that much. I strongly disagree with MN's ideas on the Stonehorn due to its large size (a detriment on the table) and fairly small damage output for a monster in that price range. The model is excellent and I'm not saying it's garbage or anything, but I wouldn't take one unless I was purposefully paring down my list/was really interested in painting one up. I agree with the assessment of small Bull units. They act a lot like chariots in other armies allowing for redirection, chaff deletion, and a nice flanking force. I love running them in my MSU OK list as they strongly compliment the rather shooty focus of the rest of the list. Just make sure you keep them cheap as you'll bleed chaff points way too quickly otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Yes, the point cost for the stonehorn is a bit much. It takes two cannon shots to bring it down though. There have been a few times when I was able to some nice buffs on it from a slaughtermaster as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Well I haven't heard anyone saying Firebellies are bad, it's just I have never seen one on the table in any armies and have always seen Slaughter Masters. The Stonehorn is on my wish list but I might get Mornfangs and an Ironblaster first. Also after tonight's beat down I might need a break from O&G. Even playing my best (I made one minor mistake that I could see.) and my dwarven opponent having the worst luck with his dice my army was just out matched. I need more game experience before I can play well with O&G. OK will be way more forgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 firebellies arent 'bad' there's just generally better choices. for comp, yea they are great. uncomp you'll almost never see them. ML, OnG is one of the hardest armies to play(and most frustrating), but you shouldnt totally throw the towel in for them. when i first started my dwarfs i think i won 2 of my first 15 games with 2 ties as well. and as you know my beastmen i lost 8 straight to start. losing stinks and you should switch up just for the feel of 'change' every now and so but dont give up on them! i know OnG are actually on the same tier as dwarfs generally and with swedish OnG can have some fantastic lists(i know im weird, but i made some lists with OnG and you can go dirty with them and have decent comp score). i do think you'll enjoy ogres. you will have leadership issues(you're use to that) but they are a different army than OnG that will give you a unique feel. try and find some battle reports of some good OnG players and watch them a bit. I did that with dwarfs to see how to use them and also learn from mistakes they make as well. it helps. honestly i thought you played great. there were very few moves i would have done differently and it really came down to turn 5 and a few bad overrun dice rolls that kept your trolls out and you not going through 2 units with black orcs to escape. if you rolled better there its a totally different game and actually likely win. i really feel it was that close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I am not giving up on my O&G I am just admitting I need more experience before I am ready for them. I have won with my army but aside from Beastmen and Tome Kings they are one of the most frustrating armies to learn with. And I have gotten a lot better with them. I just want an army that I can take a break with and just stomp things. The Ogres are an army I have always wanted to play and this year I will give them a go. I still have my other armies that I can take my gloves off with but why not go with an arm that looks fun to paint and gives impact hits everywhere! Think of it as therapy. And after I have had more time on the table with and more experience I will go back to my O&G. This time with more knowledge and I will be able to focus on the more difficult tricky tactics of O&G instead of learning them along with the basics like the movement phase and priority targets. (I also need to get my hands on more army books so I am not surprised by what my opponent's army can do.) So not giving up, just going back to the gym to be better prepared. Also I was just dreaming of Leadbelchers opening up a bunch of whoop-ass on your Slayers as they slog their way across the table. "Die you orange brearded suicide boys." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I'll offer some advice when I am not on my phone. I will say that Ogres are great fun with lots of viable builds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 @dont panic: I'm still going to have to disagree there. Sure you more commonly see Butcher+Slaughtermaster combo in Ogres due to the Maw tax, but Firebellies still show up quite a bit in competitive play (especially after the rise of elves). They're an amazing buy only reined in by how dumb the Maw tax is design-wise. Mornfang are an absolute blast to play and are relatively easy on the wallet given how large the models are. I've had good experiences with them in a wide variety of setups such as two units of two, three units of three, and one unit of four with the Dragonhide Banner. Ogres like to abuse their mobility to win games and have the added bonus that any non-gnoblar unit can be added to a combat for devastating results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJTW Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yes, the point cost for the stonehorn is a bit much. It takes two cannon shots to bring it down though. There have been a few times when I was able to some nice buffs on it from a slaughtermaster as well. Remember that multiple wounds are halved, so generally you need 3-4 cannon shots to kill it. And impact his are great. I ran 2 stone horns a few OFCC's back. If you have an iron blaster, they stonehorn will not draw the canon hate. They are great at grinding through infantry, and they also look cool. People often call monsters cannon bait, but sometimes they forget that their might be more important targets. What I am getting at is that this is one of the most durrable monsters in the game, and while yes, people will shoot at it, they will generally forget about shooting at more important stuff and still not kill your stonehorn before it gets stuck in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Remember that multiple wounds are halved, so generally you need 3-4 cannon shots to kill it. And impact his are great. I ran 2 stone horns a few OFCC's back. If you have an iron blaster, they stonehorn will not draw the canon hate. They are great at grinding through infantry, and they also look cool. People often call monsters cannon bait, but sometimes they forget that their might be more important targets. What I am getting at is that this is one of the most durrable monsters in the game, and while yes, people will shoot at it, they will generally forget about shooting at more important stuff and still not kill your stonehorn before it gets stuck in. I wouldn't call a six wound 4+ AS monster "one of the most durable monsters in the game" especially given that it's 250 points. Sure they shrug off cannon hits better than most, but that is only one of the reasons people shy away from big monsters this edition. These guys are no better at shrugging off other monster killers such as Poison, don't have the mobility to escape threats (ie no Fly), and are possessed of rather mediocre damage output. Again the model is a cool one and they definitely aren't going to be an albatross for the army, but intimating that they're a great army buy is going too far considering what ogres as a whole are good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Sorry for my delayed reply - life, ya know? I've played Ogres for a long time (nearly since they came out) and have used all sorts of lists. I have played with everything in the book, except a Thundertusk (tho I did pick up a box recently) at one time or another. Many of my lists tend to be 'unconventional' or get label as 'bad'. But I have mustered those sub-optimal lists to success far more often than not. I'm not patting my own back here nor inflating my ego (I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect no one's penis gets bigger from winning a game of Warhammer - no matter how some guys might act when they play to win). I am only saying don't arbitrarily dismiss units from the book that other people say are not good just because popular opinion says so. My OFCC Ogre list from this year was on the chopping block for being too weak: LORDS Slaughtermaster, General, Magic Level 4, Lore of Beasts, Charmed Shield HEROES Butcher, Level 2, Lore of the Great Maw, Iron Fist Hunter, Iron Fist, Beastkiller, Dragonhelm Hunter, Longstrider, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem CORE (7) Ogres, Look-Out Gnoblar, Iron Fist, Full Command (8) Ogres, Look-Out Gnoblar, Iron Fist, Full Command (20) Gnoblars, Trappers (20) Gnoblars, Trappers SPECIAL (4) Leadbelchers, Musician (4) Yhetees (4) Yhetees (4) Sabretusk Pack (4) Sabretusk Pack RARE (1) Stonehorn, Harpoon Launcher (1) Giant (1) Giant I think this is the first list I've used without a Firebelly since their arrival. I played a Deathstar list at a local event recently that featured a pair of Firebellies and they were great in tandem (I usually only include one). As you can see that list is laden with 'poor choices', but I can tell you (as can my opponents) that this is far more capable than it looks. I will break down the choices and my thoughts on other choices in a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 i stand corrected about the firebellies. i totally forgot they have a breath weapon as well(which is great with ogres..). and are very cheap for what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I had run my Firebelly with a Potion of Speed so I could get the BW out sooner in combat, but I think the Ruby Ring is the better choice. Unless you are using 2, in which case take both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 thatDave I also tend to take less than optimal units often and will admit it is becuase I don't like Netlisting and find those subpar units can be good used right. Most of the time those Subpar units are only subpar becuase there are some fantastic units you can take instead so they get over looked. As I mentioned I do want at least one unit of Gnoblars and Trappers. Being an O&G player I know those small guys may not kill but they will be super annoying if used right. I don't want to use Manhunters yet becuase they are that good and I want to learn the Ogres with its main core first, Ogre units and Ironguts. Also the current Manhunter models do not appeal to me and I want to see if new models will come out in 9th. Otherwise I love the look of the rest of the models. Also why are Yhetees considered "bad"? They are a Fast Cav with and initiative of 4 with magical attacks. They will eat flanking units up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yhetees are considered "bad" because they're a relatively expensive shock unit with no protection other than a -1 to be hit. The just don't match up well against small arms fire and considering the three best BS-based armies also have permanent rerolls to-hit against them, they just aren't well off. They're also nowhere near as good as Fast Cav as really they only have the Swiftstride part which more efficient units in OK also have access to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 If you haven't checked this website out, I would at the very least suggest looking at some of the content that's offered. http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 If you haven't checked this website out, I would at the very least suggest looking at some of the content that's offered. http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php Thanks for the link. Very good reading so far. After looking through the models has anyone tried to turn the Great Maw from the Thundertusk into the standard for the BSB. Also the Saber are kind of 'meh' and I thought the wolves from the Spacewolves would make a nice substitute. Also there are like 2 Maneater models I don't detest and was wondering how hard it would be to kitbash some of them together and maybe a Tyrant? The modeling options seem somewhat limited from the limited number of models available but otherwise I don't see to much of an issue modeling wise. Price wise..... I like to support my LGS's but they never have discounts on Fantasy models. The 20% discount might prove to be too tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 All those modeling questions have been done on the stronghold. Browse the cauldron section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Oh oh..... with the latest rumor that has a ring of truth I am holding off on any new purchases outside of a couple I need for OFCC. Really not sure what to make of it all but I am reserving my opinion till I can see the bigger picture. But for now keep playing everyone, just remember that the End Times may not be recanted like the Storm of Chaos was and it will mean changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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