Swan-of-War Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Like I said - a player with the means to higher a Golden Demon level painter shouldn't be receiving any awards for the GD painter's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 The equivalency to me is signing up for a tourney, then paying a much more accomplished player to play your games for you, then claiming award/prize at the end. We (of the "they" camp) are saying that a person should be honest about having commissioned an army. If an event has a Best Painted award, read the rules for qualifying for Best Painted. If they state you must have painted the army yourself, then there you go. If a person doesn't disclose the commissioned work, then they are a liar. Simple. Consequences to follow. But on the same level an award called the Best painted really being a Best painter award can be considered to be just as misleading. Cause I know a few events thet nvr say you have to had painted it. up to and including OFCC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psilence Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 It would come down to the tourney and its guidelines. Show up, be honest, and go with the rulings of the judges/T.O. If you don't like/disagree with said guidelines don't participate. Beyond that it would come down to indidual taste. I paint my own models. /shrug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've never won a game of 40k. Do I get a discount? I'm not going to win best general... ;) Are you being given a chance to win? Does entry fee to the event reflect costs related to this chance to win? If best general is something you truly cannot win, due to elitist players not wanting to share the limelight, they yeah, a discount isn't entirely unreasonable, assuming that the award is intended to be reflected in the cost for the event. I'm not suggesting a discount for bad players or poorly painted armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 We used to do so at the Storm/Harvester for both best appearance and favorite army award because in a prefect world that is what you'd want. We finally gave up on trying to do so. There's too many grey areas and frankly the guys that are serious about their craft tend to filter to the top over most studio work -- so it creates drama and headache for almost no gain. My experience had been that a Peoples Choice award would be way more open to commissioned work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 So, what's the context of this whole thing, anyhow? Did a commissioned army just win Best Painted at TSHFT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 On subject, does the best painted award need to reflect a "painted" army, or is it about appearance more than paint? Is basing allowed to bear any part in this award? Likewise, how is paint defined for the event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Um, no. Any event worth their salt will define what the qualifications are. Your example above defines a cheater. I'm not fond of cheating. This type of logic is the same as using loaded dice to win Best General. "But it doesn't say in the Tourny packet that I can't use loaded dice" is a dick move. So is passing off a paid painted army as your own work. It's called plagiarism. When I was really active in running events I zeroed folks appearance scores for lying about the paint work. This is a matter I'll throw down on. I'm not quite sure what you are saying no to. I've been to plenty of events where people cheated while playing the game...why not lie/cheat about painting? I wasn't saying you should lie, I'm saying that if you are trying to award the best painter, then people are going to lie in order to win it...or keep open their chance to win best overall. It is something you have to prepare for. I wasn't advocating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 To sum up what I think we can all agree is. If is said in the rule for event. "you must have painted army for award" then your cheating if you don't. But if it doesn't you should not be look down on if you win with one you didn't paint. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 So, what's the context of this whole thing, anyhow? Did a commissioned army just win Best Painted at TSHFT? That was my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 To sum up what I think we can all agree is. If is said in the rule for event. "you must have painted army for award" then your cheating if you don't. But if it doesn't you should not be look down on if you win with one you didn't paint. I can agree to this. If it isn't in the rules pack, I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 But on the same level an award called the Best painted really being a Best painter award can be considered to be just as misleading. We can't get hung up on the award title. I don't care if it's the Cosmo P McGillicutty Golden Brush award, what are the qualifications for winning the prestigious MickyG? If the TO doesn't care if if you painted it or it was a commission, then I can't complain, because it's on me to read the tourny rules. If someone lies about it though, then they are a small person indeed. I've commissioned work, I do commission work, and in this small community we live in honesty and sportsmanship should rule the day. Again, I'm old school. My belief is that a overall winner should do well in all aspects of the hobby to rise above the other opponents. Hell the only tourny I ever won I had an even win-loss-tie record, but my other scores elevated. That was how that event was structured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 My experience had been that a Peoples Choice award would be way more open to commissioned work. So you have no issue with Fav Army going to someone who didn't paint it, but Best Appearance is somehow different? Interesting. It's not an uncommon opinion, I have just never understood it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 To sum up what I think we can all agree is. If is said in the rule for event. "you must have painted army for award" then your cheating if you don't. But if it doesn't you should not be look down on if you win with one you didn't paint. Depends if they enforce it or not. That last GG cup, best achievement score went to the GK player with a very unpainted and not fully assembled army. They totally had a painted requirement for prize support, but the she got the prize anyway. It didn't really bug me, she was a very fun opponent, but it was an example of inconsistent rules enforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Depends if they enforce it or not. That last GG cup, best achievement score went to the GK player with a very unpainted and not fully assembled army. They totally had a painted requirement for prize support, but the she got the prize anyway. It didn't really bug me, she was a very fun opponent, but it was an example of inconsistent rules enforcement. I didn't know about that one (mostly because I didn't play her). Non-wysiwyg, non-painted armies getting prizes is lame when the packet says they need to be painted to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 And that is why it is mandatory to go to the Hobby Retreat so that there are witnesses to you painting your army! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I didn't know about that one (mostly because I didn't play her). Non-wysiwyg, non-painted armies getting prizes is lame when the packet says they need to be painted to win. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I didn't know about that one (mostly because I didn't play her). Non-wysiwyg, non-painted armies getting prizes is lame when the packet says they need to be painted to win. Wasn't even a packet, we had copy and pasted LVO rules with some which really needed FAQ support days before the event. Anyway, Captain A, you're awesome and you did a great job with that event and I did have fun (despite being heavily sleep deprived). You did nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm not quite sure what you are saying no to. I've been to plenty of events where people cheated while playing the game...why not lie/cheat about painting? I wasn't saying you should lie, I'm saying that if you are trying to award the best painter, then people are going to lie in order to win it...or keep open their chance to win best overall. It is something you have to prepare for. I wasn't advocating it. Then I misunderstood your point. I apologize, That's on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 And that is why it is mandatory to go to the Hobby Retreat so that there are witnesses to you painting your army LOL and Best Event Plug goes to. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I just wanted a simple event and now i have flames and burning! OOOOOOOOOOh! As a TO myslef and a person who does not want to run an army i didn't paint. I see both sides. For the TO, i think there is too many things that can go wrong with requiring an army being painted by the player. As a player, I feel bummed cause I can't afford to have my army professionally painted and also don't know if i want to have it professionally painted anyways as this is a hobby game, not a professional game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 So you have no issue with Fav Army going to someone who didn't paint it, but Best Appearance is somehow different? Interesting. It's not an uncommon opinion, I have just never understood it. It's based on the qualifications for the award, my experiences were that Peoples Choice didn't exclude commissioned work. By making a separation it then does become different, that's the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've commissioned work, I do commission work, and in this small community we live in honesty and sportsmanship should rule the day. As a professional painter, are you allowed to win a best painted award? Aren't all your armies considered professionally painted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 As a professional painter, are you allowed to win a best painted award? Aren't all your armies considered professionally painted? Sigh. It's not about being professionally painted, it's about painting it yourself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Sigh. It's not about being professionally painted, it's about painting it yourself. I was teasing there. On a side note, I don't actually own any commissioned models. I'm not a huge fan of players with commissioned armies, but I'd rather play an event against nicely painted armies than against poorly painted armies. I like to think of players with commissioned painted armies as like people in wheelchairs - just because they can't stand with the rest of use, doesn't mean they can't be equals. Denying players who can't/won't paint their armies is like having an event that isn't wheelchair accessible. You shouldn't deny them on those grounds. It doesn't have enough to do with the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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