scottshoemaker Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 What does that have to do with KAP's question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Because that is what started this discussion and most people have trouble telling the difference between Best Painted and Best Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Huh? I don't get your point. I was referring to your post earlier: The equivalency to me is signing up for a tourney, then paying a much more accomplished player to play your games for you, then claiming award/prize at the end. In both cases one person is the one doing the nominal "work" and another one is receiving the reward for that work. Do you really care who the second person is, so long as the first person consents to the exchange? If I pay someone for their painting services- or, yes, their playing services, or any other services- the implicit assumption is that any future consequences or benefits of the thing I purchased are transferred to me by consent of the seller. Maybe you don't like people who pay for painting; personally, even though I am a slow and rather mediocre and rather lazy painter, I prefer to paint my own models, in part because I like the ability to with them exactly what I please. But then again, I also like converting my own unique models rather than using stock-standard ones; that doesn't mean I begrudge people who choose to do differently their decision just because it's not the decision I would make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 sigh think we played this one to dead. I'm going to ...ummm paint some white scars. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I finally won a Best Painted award for 40K. It's taken me ten years to get good enough to even be considered and i did the job myself. That was probably my favorite of all the things Ive won. I wouldnt have beamed and felt as proud if it had been pro painted. I have no problem at all when people get their armies pro painted though. I plan to get one done, even though I feel Ive come a long way. For me its a simple function of time I don't have enough time for both painting and practicing and I own to many forces to rely on my own time. So I either get some help or I start shedding armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I was referring to your post earlier: In both cases one person is the one doing the nominal "work" and another one is receiving the reward for that work. Do you really care who the second person is, so long as the first person consents to the exchange? If I pay someone for their painting services- or, yes, their playing services, or any other services- the implicit assumption is that any future consequences or benefits of the thing I purchased are transferred to me by consent of the seller. Maybe you don't like people who pay for painting; personally, even though I am a slow and rather mediocre and rather lazy painter, I prefer to paint my own models, in part because I like the ability to with them exactly what I please. But then again, I also like converting my own unique models rather than using stock-standard ones; that doesn't mean I begrudge people who choose to do differently their decision just because it's not the decision I would make. I'm all for commissioned painting. I'm not for winning an award for something someone else did. The example of giving your award to a buddy after you won it is, to me anyway, different then paying someone to play your games for you, then you collecting the reward. It's the "pay to play/win" aspect that I don't like. When I see the "Best Painted" award as a title I assume that the qualifications mean you must have painted the army yourself. Admittedly I don't participate in big tournaments anymore, so my assumptions must be biased. That's my opinion anyway, a strong one, but still just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 late to the party, but here is my thoughts. Paying for painting is taking part of the hobby away. If the tournament's goals is to judge the best overall gamer at the event, then paying someone else to paint your army is cheating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Look what popped up in my Facebook feed: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Started by same person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I know. I just think it's interesting how much traction this debate gets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 It all depends....are you paying someone else for that traction? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 No I think traction should be done by yourself or it means nothing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Disagree - you're essentially paying to win. Just because I (theoretically) have the money to buy a pro-painted army is a slap to the face to those who have humbler means and pour their heart / soul / talent into their army. I'm not doing anything other than writing a check. Seems like a challenge to learn to paint better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Don't know what you're trying to say Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 If an army isn't eligible for Best Painted on the premise that it was commissioned, I don't think that army should be eligible for Best overall either, for the same reason. They should get 0s in all scores related to painting at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Don't know what you're trying to say Pax As an aspiring artist, when I see something done much better, it presents a challenge to overcome. A player that uses their cash to commission an army that is more stunning than mine is merely providing me with a new challenge - one I'd likely miss if they didn't commission it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 You know what? you know what? you know what? I like to paint! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 So is the real issue winning best painted or winning the prize support for best painted? Stuff like this is why I'm such a fan of the one-ticket raffle system. Perhaps knowing I'll never win Best Painted or Best General has biased me a bit though;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I have endless fields of plastic and pewter for anyone with the skill, dexterity, patience and even GIVEN the patience, for those w enough time. But those people are rare. So I think that begrudging a guy his living as a mini painter makes no sense in a market full of need. And I think that money is just a measue of time spent in worthwhile pursuits and converted into: skill youll never have, dexterity youll never posess, patience you werent born with and time you cant afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 No one is begrudging professional mini painters. They should get the prize if an army they painted wins. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Some...some.. were definitely putting out that they think best overall should be forfeit. I think not. But it was mostly to this that I speak.Also consider... that someone else painted it doesnt change that the second place guy really didny have the best painted army. So there is that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 On a side note, should airbrushed armies really be in the same award category as brush-painted armies? they are very different in terms of what constitutes a difficult paint job,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBF Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 What is the incentive to a hobbyist if you can simply buy it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I am so glad we have this OFCC thread so early. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 What is the incentive to a hobbyist if you can simply buy it ? Well, if you make it yourself, then you are a hobbyist. If you buy it, you're a collector... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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