McNathanson Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 As soon as I read the rules for Malekith Eternity King from ET: Khaine I thought, "Okay, this is just for fun... nothing can stop this guy, he must be illegal in tournaments."I did a little math and saw how utterly he would destroy almost anything he touched in just a few rounds of combat. But just in case (of what, I'm not sure) I suckered my favorite opponent (my brother, who some of you know is a high-caliber player) into a test game or two. It's not as bad as I thought, it's worse. Malekith not only can beat anything himself, including multiple units at once, without risk or trouble, he can also turn the rest of your army into teleporting outflanking super killy unstoppable dumbness. Sure there are a few things that could tie him up for a while, and there are a few things that might even over time wear him down, but seeing as he is a flyer, and can magically send whatever other units he wants to deal with aforementioned threats, it doesn't matter. He's effectively unstoppable.So anyway, anybody out there reading this who is organizing a comped tournament between now and when (I HOPE) Swedish officially makes him basically impossible to take, please, give him a try with a good player running him before you allow him at a tournament. He's not "fun" he's just game over thanks for wasting your time. And if the other characters are anything like him (I only have read the story books and the Khaine rules), please oh please make them impossible to take, too. Thanks, that is all :) Sincerely, NtK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 considering he can survive an entire round of shooting from a gunline taking it right to the face... yup broken like a joke. ive done the math and if i had EVERYTHING firing at him(which is downright impossible), close range i can only take off 5-6 wounds with superb rolling. then he just hops and skips his army into me turn 2, game over... i dont think i could come up with a more broken character than him(although karl franz is pretty stupid too). who needs a regular ward save when you have 2++ to non-magicals and dont take multi wounds. its a joke.... i can at least take out nagash with 3 cannons. malekith brushes them off... he can die to some things like a lot of magical pew pew and roll a 6 on a characteristic DIE test, but the chances of it are quite slim. i still want to face him and see his destruction for my own eyes... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The Black Sheep Brawl will be allowing him, but with a -175 to the comp scoring it really limits what other toys you can take with him. We'll see how he does in a tournament setting (if anyone actually brings him that is). I know of one possible person bringing a Malekith. If he is that broken, where people can't figure out a win against him, then we will know for next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I beat him with a few castings of infernal gateway, but I would hardly say that's a safe option for everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvos Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Before this thread gets too out of control with doomsayers and everything. I agree that Malekith the Eternity King is a brutal model. He is 1,000 points. The model may have 10 wounds, and be S6 and T6. The model has a 3+ armor save and a 2+ ward save vs. nonmagical attacks. The model does 1d3+1 wound and has ASF and Murderous prowess. The model is immune to multi-wounds. The model is a Level 5 wizard and loremaster of shadow with a 12" awesome bubble for elves. This model is pretty bad ass. This model also dies to a single volley of a dwarven runed organ gun. This model dies to Lore of Metal badly. This model dies to magic missiles like a champ. This model loses his magic armor ward save to High Magic - Vaul's unmaking which more than 1 army has access to. This model would also die to being flanked by a unit with magical attacks and high strength - which many armies have access to. Most armies have access to Lore of Metal, and if they don't they have access to Lore of Death. There is no set "hard counter" to Malekith the Eternity King but he is by no means unbeatable. He is currently in my beta version of the OFCC Swedish Comp Addendum v.2 at a 140. I will be facing him this weekend at least 3 times with 2 different armies that will be comped anywhere from an 8-13. If he happens to steamroll my entire army by himself then that will be a separate conversation. If people are concerned about playing against him at OFCC, please don't be. He is currently comped in my beta addendum at 140 which means right off the bat with nothing else in the army ,the army is a 16. If you add a unit of 20 witch elves you are now looking at a 14,2 by adding just 1 unit. Let's say you add a unit of Doomfire Warlocks, just 1. You are now looking at an 11.8 list. You still have almost 1000 points left to spend in the army and have to stay above an 8. Good luck taking a power list with that model. I am actually concerned that he is over comped at 140 but like I said, many armies have tools to deal with this model. If they do not then the captain's will need to have a very important conversation during match ups. In the end guys, stay positive. After all, anyone can roll 1's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I beat him with a few castings of infernal gateway, but I would hardly say that's a safe option for everyone. FACT! Two spells later and The Eternity King was no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Overcomped at 140 is incorrect I think. Nagash is 140 and that is about right I think. I would peg EK Malekith as better. I'm with Nathan. I've played with and against Malekith in his regular form. He is very good in that incarnation. EK Malekith is better. My problem with EK Malekith is the same issue I have with Nagash (and KFA too) - the issue being that the games are very likely to be polarized. Either the other player will have the tools to handle (and use them effectively) those guys and the big meanie gets taken out and that player gets rolled once the big meanie is gone. Or the other player doesn't have the tools (or doesn't use them effectively) and gets rolled by the big meanie. Neither of those situations fall in line with the OFCC imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 FACT! Two spells later and The Eternity King was no more.How did the rest of the game go? What turn did EK Malekith go down? Did his loss turn the game or cause the DE to lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 How did the rest of the game go? What turn did EK Malekith go down? Did his loss turn the game or cause the DE to lose? The DE came out on top. I spent most of the game positioning to try and get him in casting range, and I had a couple REALLY unfortunate combat fluffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Before this thread gets too out of control with doomsayers and everything. I agree that Malekith the Eternity King is a brutal model. He is 1,000 points. The model may have 10 wounds, and be S6 and T6. The model has a 3+ armor save and a 2+ ward save vs. nonmagical attacks. The model does 1d3+1 wound and has ASF and Murderous prowess. The model is immune to multi-wounds. The model is a Level 5 wizard and loremaster of shadow with a 12" awesome bubble for elves. This model is pretty bad ass. This model also dies to a single volley of a dwarven runed organ gun. This model dies to Lore of Metal badly. This model dies to magic missiles like a champ. This model loses his magic armor ward save to High Magic - Vaul's unmaking which more than 1 army has access to. This model would also die to being flanked by a unit with magical attacks and high strength - which many armies have access to. Most armies have access to Lore of Metal, and if they don't they have access to Lore of Death. There is no set "hard counter" to Malekith the Eternity King but he is by no means unbeatable. He is currently in my beta version of the OFCC Swedish Comp Addendum v.2 at a 140. I will be facing him this weekend at least 3 times with 2 different armies that will be comped anywhere from an 8-13. If he happens to steamroll my entire army by himself then that will be a separate conversation. If people are concerned about playing against him at OFCC, please don't be. He is currently comped in my beta addendum at 140 which means right off the bat with nothing else in the army ,the army is a 16. If you add a unit of 20 witch elves you are now looking at a 14,2 by adding just 1 unit. Let's say you add a unit of Doomfire Warlocks, just 1. You are now looking at an 11.8 list. You still have almost 1000 points left to spend in the army and have to stay above an 8. Good luck taking a power list with that model. I am actually concerned that he is over comped at 140 but like I said, many armies have tools to deal with this model. If they do not then the captain's will need to have a very important conversation during match ups. In the end guys, stay positive. After all, anyone can roll 1's. anyone can roll 1s, but dark elves get rerolls for those situations dirty stinky elves... as for a single volley from an organ gun, lol... no way. u might as well go hit the slots at the casino with those odds. he's not your regular 'T3 elf annihilation by organ guns'. he's a T6 dragon with 10W... even burlok with penetration would be highly unlikely. and doubtful anyone would be silly enough to let him have shots on malekith in the first place. point is, not what ofcc is about as stated before. rock paper scissors lists(such as gunlines) are just as much not fun and thats kind of what the malekith is when some lists cant deal with it while others can. he can literally solo 'weaker' comp lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The DE came out on top. I spent most of the game positioning to try and get him in casting range, and I had a couple REALLY unfortunate combat fluffs. I did? If I remember, it was a very close draw. Malekith went down in turn 4. It was my Corsairs that were holding it down for me. Heck, even his warhounds were doing great things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think you'll have to worry about The Eternity King at OFCC dont panic. There weren't very many dark elf players at last years event. I saw more lizardmen armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think you'll have to worry about The Eternity King at OFCC dont panic. There weren't very many dark elf players at last years event. I saw more lizardmen armies. im ok with him being in the open(isnt that what thats for?), just wouldnt be fun to play against when i bring a soft dwarf list... and i like dark elves. i think they are a fun opponent. i just dont think i have an answer for him(as we will see on sunday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 It would be very hard to include him and keep in line with comp, unless your other teammates were willing to lend you points to allow you to dip down to 8. Even then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 It would be very hard to include him and keep in line with comp, unless your other teammates were willing to lend you points to allow you to dip down to 8. Even then.... Only if EKM is penalized heavily enough. An 8, a pair of 12s and an 18 equals 50 - easy peasy. A softy, two solids and an EKM steamroller. I will put together a list and see how capable the rest of the list works out to be with a 140 handicap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 He needs to be more than 140. He's better than Nagash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Better in combat...yes. Better at summoning no VP units.....no. They both have their advantages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Certainly would be an interesting fight. But in the context of comped lists,both Nagash and Malekith lists would be heavily gimped with Nagash I think taking a back seat to him mainly due to the fact that Nagash would not be able to take the casting boosts and starting protection he would need to ramp up his force multiplying...things like the casket,Heirotitan and such.Now I haven't done a comp with the new values for Nagash as yet but a couple weeks ago he was a -175 I think and with all the bells and whistles I would want in the list I think it would end up being like a 2 or 3,lol. And with Malekith`s ability to teleport his army around the board, that would really hinder the power of summoning speed bumps and redirectors to control board space. Either way its nice to see they are being considered in the upcoming OFCC:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 If Nagash can get Abyssal Swarm (Spell 4) off, he can raise 8 Sepulchral Stalkers. With Average rolls (5 hits per) giving you 40 hits you'll get 7 wounds (average) which would gimp him down to 3. A Terrorgheist Scream will do 3 wounds on average. That's just one example that Undead Legion can deal with him, especially Nagash Undead Legion. I think Nagash and Malekith are on par when it comes to comp personally. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 You don't need the bells and whistles with Nagash because you can summon them. You just take a ton of cheap skeletons for bunkers for your level 1 necromancers (more wound spells). For nagash, you take one of each lore he's able to take and now you have much more superior magic than most. You get away with the comp score by just summoning the stuff you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Look at Swedish comp for undead legion, you get -6 for each lore of undeath spell. So Nagash comes with a built in additional -30 comp, making him effectively -170. If Lore of Undeath makes them on par, then Malekith should be -170 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The Black Sheep Brawl will be allowing him, but with a -175 to the comp scoring it really limits what other toys you can take with him. We'll see how he does in a tournament setting (if anyone actually brings him that is). I know of one possible person bringing a Malekith. If he is that broken, where people can't figure out a win against him, then we will know for next time. For the record I think it still takes a player with reasonably good threat analysis skills to make him game breaking. If you let him get caught by a unit of 50 Men at Arms with a ward save, or he gets hit with an IF something silly, sure he can lose. But most armies won't have any prayer, if he's used right :( I hope nobody brings him but eh, I'm also a person who cares about having a close, well fought game a lot, maybe more than most... maybe getting trampled by the Eternity King will seem more fun to other people than it would to me! I mean, his name IS pretty cool ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Honestly NtK, I wouldn't be concerned with 50 Men at Arms with a ward save. Between the 10 attacks, thunderstomp, and possible breath weapon I don't see him loosing to them. MAA hit on 5's and wound on 6's. He's hitting on 3's wounding on 2's (re-rolling all of those failed attacks and wounds). MMA get a 5++ Malekith would have a 4+/2++ (saves half from armour and most likely the rest on a 2++. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Before this thread gets too out of control with doomsayers and everything. .... In the end guys, stay positive. After all, anyone can roll 1's. Hey hang on a second, I'm not being "not positive", I'm trying to help people from not having a crappy tournament experience! I'm saying he's a borked unit and if a good player brings him to a tournament he's going to walk right over everyone he faces unless they happen to have one of the few theoretical counters. And I'm not panicking and saying the sky is falling, but I am saying, well, what I said: I strongly encourage him to be disallowed at tournaments. All those counters you listed were for the most part also a) available in about 1/10th of all the army builds out there, and b) totally inconsistent and c) easily removed by Malekith's shadow-walking units. All these stories about how people beat him... oy... not to be mean but just to be direct: why was he getting Infernal Gateway, the only significant threat he probably had, cast not once but twice (or more?) against your flying unit, who can slam into any enemy unit and kill it? That's a DD spell and if your guy's in combat, he can't hit you with it. How is that spell going off unless it was IF'd, since you have an L5, +d6 to dispel after rolling, and probably very little else you care about dispelling? And are you guys who have tested him playing his rules around re-roll correctly? He gets to re-roll ALL failed to wound rolls: breath weapon in CC, Thunderstomp, blah blah. So he chews through even big units very quickly and moves on. I'm sure I can come up with a bunch of different theoretical army builds to beat him, but that's only likely if my opponent messes up and doesn't use him and his Shadow-walk to take out my counters. I can say with confidence that no army I've played against so far in 8th would even be an interesting game against the army I made that features his big silly self. Anyway theory hammer aside, I'll stand by what I said and if people disagree with me, I am totally fine with it, but I think it's probably because a) you haven't played against him, or b) he wasn't being played right ;) I just wanted to put that warning out there because he's really not fun and hopefully it saves people from having a bummer tournament! Peace, love and good luck killing that m'fer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Honestly NtK, I wouldn't be concerned with 50 Men at Arms with a ward save. Between the 10 attacks, thunderstomp, and possible breath weapon I don't see him loosing to them. MAA hit on 5's and wound on 6's. He's hitting on 3's wounding on 2's (re-rolling all of those failed attacks and wounds). MMA get a 5++ Malekith would have a 4+/2++ (saves half from armour and most likely the rest on a 2++. He's not LOSING to them, of course, he's wasting way too much TIME killing that unit. That would be a huge win for the other player if they could get him stuck in a cheaper unit that would last that long. By a quick calc ((10 * 8/9 hit * 35/36 wound + 3.5 TStomp * 35/36 wound) * 2/3 pass ward) He's doing about 8 wounds per round against the MAA because of the 5++, so if they went 5 wide they'd stay Steadfast for 5 or 6 rounds of combat, assuming a LD10 re-rollable break test they would be able to tar-pit him for way too long for their points. Again there's no reason at all they should EVER get to fight him because he's so silly maneuverable and so is the rest of his army. Edit: just realized, I said, "sure he can lose", sorry to be lazy... I meant he could lose the game, not the individual combat ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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