Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Right, so as silly as it sounds, gotta ask the RAW question: Can you kill off your allies for the purposes of meeting Maelstrom objective conditions? As I read it, non-battle brother allies are considered enemy units. Although I cannot intentionally kill off my own units in the conventional ways, I can still have my units destroyed. Maelstrom objectives don't seem to require me to kill my opponent's units, just enemy units. Example, BRB objective #62: "Score 1 victory point at the end of your turn if at least one enemy unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot, or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule was completely destroyed during your turn." So, in example, my psyker perils and kills himself. If my psyker is an ally of convenience to my primary force and a unit unto themselves, do I achieve the Maelstrom objective? Likewise, if my psyker (desperate ally, single model unit) is using the Malefic Possession, a successful casting would cause the psyker to be removed. Would this achieve the example objective? Looking for a RAW reason this doesn't work. I agree it's stupid, I'm just trying to verify if my opponent could do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 If the ally rules say they are treated as an enemy, then yes, by RAW you would get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 And it is actually kinda cool, less worry about how to deal with the "allies" after the battle is won... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 If the ally rules say they are treated as an enemy, then yes, by RAW you would get the point. The issue is that it's super confusing what the ally rules mean. BRB, Under allies of convenience: "Units from the same army that are allies of convenience treat each other as 'enemy units' that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or or targeted with psychic powers." Unclear if treating them as enemy units means they are, or, if they just treat each other as if they were enemy units... Not sure what makes them enemy units for the purposes of tactical objectives. Seems like the "player" is an unofficial entity in the rules. It is implied, though not stated, that the player's army is side A, and opposing player's army is side B. Side B is entirely enemy units without question, but side A is confusing. Intention seems to be that detachments within side A treat eachother differently based on allegiance level, though all detachments in side A are on the same side. That said, this is not clearly distinguished in RAW, and seems to be written to imply a lack of distinction between certain allied detachements in Side A and the entirety of Side B. I know, I'm arguing against my own post. I'm looking for clear RAW that defines the ally levels and how they relate to other things which use the term "enemy unit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Treat as means treat as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Treat as means treat as. So, then how does it relate to the maelstrom objectives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Exactly as you listed it. If one of your allied units with the BoP rule or Psyker rules die, you get 1 Maelstrom Point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 But the thing is, "enemy" with regard to who? If I've got Blood Angels, IG, and Tau, and my Primaris Psyker snuffs it, that was an enemy Model with regard to my Tau, but a friendly with regard to my BA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 If you wore a shirt as pants, would it still be a shirt or would they change into pants due to being used as such? I really tried to make an example that helps solve this argument. Instead I found this... She allied a shirt into pants! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 But the thing is, "enemy" with regard to who? If I've got Blood Angels, IG, and Tau, and my Primaris Psyker snuffs it, that was an enemy Model with regard to my Tau, but a friendly with regard to my BA. Which one is your primary/warlord detachment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I was thinking about this some more, and realized that if you actually treat them as Enemy Units for Victory Conditions, things get really screwy. Like if you've got an AoC Unit in your backfield, that will score Linebreaker for your Opponent, and in Purge the Alien, destroying an AoC Unit gives both Players a VP. Probably best to go with "enemy=controlled by the other Player" for victory condition purposes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarlordGhrom Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I was thinking about this some more, and realized that if you actually treat them as Enemy Units for Victory Conditions, things get really screwy. Like if you've got an AoC Unit in your backfield, that will score Linebreaker for your Opponent, and in Purge the Alien, destroying an AoC Unit gives both Players a VP. Probably best to go with "enemy=controlled by the other Player" for victory condition purposes. Got to agree with this. Gets really wonky if you can kill your own troops for victory conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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