Nathanvoodoo Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Well... The DA get the best LOOKING flyer models by and far IMHO Stormwolf looks like a giant flying pickle to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Well... The DA get the best LOOKING flyer models by and far IMHO Stormwolf looks like a giant flying pickle to me. Best looking but worst over all rules saddly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psilence Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just wait for the DA codex update. Their flyers will flip from over costed and under powered, to dirt cheap and totally op. Looking at you eldar transports... ;) On topic, everyone seems to like the SW birds. They're fairly costed, and can maul units badly with their weapon load outs. I personally like their look too. They remind me of the cestus ram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just wait for the DA codex update. Their flyers will flip from over costed and under powered, to dirt cheap and totally op. Yeah, because that's totally what happened each of the other times DA got updated ;) Seriously, they seem to be immune to that flip-flop effect, but just to always be kind of underwhelming, even in the editions where they weren't basically the public beta for the SM Dex. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Looking at you eldar transports... ;) The Wave Serpent went from being the mainstay of the Eldar codex, essentially the only unit worth taking, and the center of all their competitive builds to... well, what it is now. It's pretty good evidence in contradiction of the "GW always nerfs strong units when a codex is updated" theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 One that people haven't broughten up is the Aegis Defence Line with Quadgun or Icarus Lascannon. To be honest, I think this would probably be your best, cheapest, easiest anti-air option. It has Skyfire, Interceptor and gives guys a 4+ cover save behind it and a 2+ if they go to ground. To be honest, if you are doing things like WOW nights or garagehammer, then you are probably not going to run into tons of flyers. I doubt you will see a Pentyrant list (Five flying hive tyrants) or Necron Air force. The SW flyer is boss, but then you have to ally with SW and get the requisite HQ and troops as well. The SM Talon/ Stormraven Formation is great, but is also almost 500 pts and a lot of cash to throw down. I would either: A: Ignore flyers for the most part B: Get an aegis defence line C: Start an ally force 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Stormwolf looks like a giant flying pickle to me. You're wrong and should feel bad. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadwing34 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think I am tending to go down the "Ignore Flyers" route. If someone brings one they may not be able to come out until turn 4 anyway. It really sounds like a lot of people dont use them and they also cannot claim objectives. Oh and I love the look of the DA flyer but yes the rules are just ok for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think I am tending to go down the "Ignore Flyers" route. If someone brings one they may not be able to come out until turn 4 anyway. It really sounds like a lot of people dont use them and they also cannot claim objectives. Oh and I love the look of the DA flyer but yes the rules are just ok for it. Flyers can claim objectives if they go to hover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 For getting turn 1 flyers, there is an Ultramarines formation which allows Storm Talons to "infiltrate" into position turn 1. You can also take a Skyshield Landing pad to start a flyer in play on turn 1. In both cases, I'm pretty sure they start in hover mode. One that people haven't broughten up is the Aegis Defence Line with Quadgun or Icarus Lascannon. To be honest, I think this would probably be your best, cheapest, easiest anti-air option. It has Skyfire, Interceptor and gives guys a 4+ cover save behind it and a 2+ if they go to ground. To be honest, if you are doing things like WOW nights or garagehammer, then you are probably not going to run into tons of flyers. I doubt you will see a Pentyrant list (Five flying hive tyrants) or Necron Air force. The SW flyer is boss, but then you have to ally with SW and get the requisite HQ and troops as well. The SM Talon/ Stormraven Formation is great, but is also almost 500 pts and a lot of cash to throw down. I would either: A: Ignore flyers for the most part B: Get an aegis defence line C: Start an ally force I mentioned the Icarus a few times, but it always seems to get glazed over for talk of land raiders. Yes, I totally agree that the quad and icarus are solid AA options. Aegis can be iffy, though fortifications got a big buff in 7th as they no longer require deploying prior to normal deployment. Used to be really annoying to deploy second, but have your fortification give away your general deployment before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadwing34 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Now I am confused I thought we all agreed that a LR is the ultimate AA in 40k....haha! That is a nice change in how fortifications are deployed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I always wanted to try a pair of Vengeance batteries with Punisher cannons. Seemed like a solid "zone defence" option to light flyers and troops. Easy to game against, keep an av14 facing close and it'll just ping away, but cheap and easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I always wanted to try a pair of Vengeance batteries with Punisher cannons. Seemed like a solid "zone defence" option to light flyers and troops. Easy to game against, keep an av14 facing close and it'll just ping away, but cheap and easy. Never tried it. Main issue is that I don't have a lack of S5 weapons to snap at flyers. I need weapons that will damage those AV12 flyers and deny the armor on those flying MCs. I will note that the vengeance batteries must target the nearest enemy unit as per the rules for automated fire. This means that a drop pod in front of their storm talon will prevent the punisher cannons from firing at the storm talon, despite being unable to damage the drop pod's AV12. The Quad icarus has the same limitation. The Firestorm Redoubt is the only fortification which allows automated fire to ignore non-flyers when targeting the nearest unit. Neither the vengeance batteries, nor the firestorm redoubt, may be manually fired. This can be a rather huge limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Now I am confused I thought we all agreed that a LR is the ultimate AA in 40k....haha! (Non-FW) Land Raider functions along the lines of ignoring the enemy flyers. Buildings will do this much cheaper, so if you intend to go with this sort of solution to flyers, look into some of the building options. Quite a bit of tactical value in just having a large LoS blocking object that you can place during deployment - that bastion is perfect if you want to include some artillery in your army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I always felt forts got less powerful for 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I always felt forts got less powerful for 7th. Sort of agree. I think the fortifications were a nice way to round out the weak points in existing armies. In this edition, the multiple detachments and expanded allies list really eliminates the need to rely on fortifications. Fortifications can still be handy, but they are less mandatory than they were last edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I always felt forts got less powerful for 7th. Yeah..I used to like to run all the different bunkers in my lists.The main thing that changed that for me was the Skyfire rule forcing snaps at ground targets.And actually Pax,I never really payed attention that the "Primary Target" rule on the FR was for it only..I assumed the Vengence Batteries had it too. I still consider taking an imperial bunker with a Quad gun off to the side and maybe a barricade or two,the gun still being viable AA as long as its crewed with BS3+,Works well with AM orders.And also fortifications are still scoring units as long as you control them,which in the case of a Vengence Battery is until its destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 And also fortifications are still scoring units as long as you control them Is this true? Have I been cheating myself out of scoring units for all of 7th...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is this true? Have I been cheating myself out of scoring units for all of 7th...? Yep. You can score out of and off of Forts, including if they are empty, as long as you control it. It is one of the benefits of 7th (scoring out of vehicles and with vehicles, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Yep. You can score out of and off of Forts, including if they are empty, as long as you control it. It is one of the benefits of 7th (scoring out of vehicles and with vehicles, etc). This changes everything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 This changes everything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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