Space Marine List Help

[Guest]

I am new and don't really have a specific play style

Try finding it this way.

 

Which is most desire-able: An unbreakable shield, or, a sword that cuts though anything?

What is your goal of each game of 40k: Winning, socializing, playing, learning, or rolling dice?

Are games won against the army, or, the opponent?

Does the how you win matter when playing games?

Mobility, defense, offense, or adaptability, which is best in an army?

 

Answer and I'll follow up.

[BrainFireBob]

No one looked at double CAD yet?

 

Doublewing+SM CADs?

[deadwing34]

Seems to me most people are saying I am missing Rhinos any other core units/models I should get like a thunder fire cannon?

[CaptainA]

The cool thing about SM is that they have a lot of different builds they can do, so in terms of TAC, you have a lot of options. The units in their book are also good as a whole so you can make a lot of different builds. Especially in a less competitive "friendly" environment. A lot of this is build around their chapter tactics. I, like you, have a custom chapter that I can count as any chapter so that it doesn't cost any extra money. I use my marines as any of the chapters, blood angels, (haven't done SW yet), and whatever I want to. It keeps it fresh and allows me to do lots of different builds.

 

White Scars - Guys on bikes that are troops and objective secured (obsec). Grav guns, melta, attack bikes, thunderfire and flyer support. This is one of the better SM competitive options, but doesn't mean you can't run it and be freindly.

 

Salamanders - Master crafted weapons and flamers. Do well in drop pods.

 

Ravenguard - Good rhino rush army. Lots of bodies in rhinos running around being jerks. Should've been a good assault marine choice, but GW flubbed their rules.

 

Imperial Fists (or Crimson Fists) - Great bolters and tank hunters. (with what you have this seems to be a good fit).

 

Ultramarines - very flexible and have once a game rules that allow you to do lots of different things. Also have Tigurius which is one of the better HQ's in the codex. (would also seem to be a good fit).

 

But yeah, I think what you need right now is transports of some kind. The Knight is a great model and will add a lot of punch to your army. As for other models, get what looks cool and what you want. If you want a more competitive lense we can talk that, but just do whatever. Don't expect to win a lot with that style though.

 

IMO good units.

Scouts

Tacs in transports

Thunderfire Cannon

Bike Troops

Stormtalon

Stormraven

Sternguard

Chapter Master - He is a beast with Power Fist/Bike/Shield Eternal.

Legion of the Damned

Thunderhammer Stormshield Terminators

Centurions

Stalker

 

Just some food for thought.

[deadwing34]

That's just what I was thinking about my army, about having the flexibility of running it as any other SM army maybe even a fallen angels chaos SM army as well. I am going to keep painting my new stuff in DA style to fit the rest of my army as well. I guess at this point I am wanting some advice about what to get next to flesh out my army and make it a bit stronger on the table. This was some good advice on what units to get next.

[VonVilkee]

Rhinos, and some more Bolter boys to allow optional special weapons. Devestator box would be good too to allow more heavy weapon options. Space Marines work best when you can switch up weapon options as it will change the way a squad works drastically. It seems to me that their task is set by the special and or heavy weapon you give them.

[deadwing34]

Do people think Rhino's or Razorbacks are the better transport?

[BrainFireBob]

Razorback multiple small unit has a place, but I favor rhinos. Don't glue the top plate on, buy the razorback kit, and you have both options

[VonVilkee]

Razorback multiple small unit has a place, but I favor rhinos. Don't glue the top plate on, buy the razorback kit, and you have both options

This is a great idea. Reason I reco rhinos is the combat squads rule, and how both halves of a squad can be in a single transport while still being two separate squads.

[BrainFireBob]

Allright, have some time and am not on my phone.

 

deadwing34, I see two items lacking in your current model collection. One is a transport option for your Tactical marines, one is flexible anti-air. You are also a little light on troop bodies, but not badly so. This is not to tell you to go out and spend gobs of money, but if you are interested in increasing the competitiveness of your collection, gunlines aren't it in this edition, especially for Maelstrom missions.

 

Personally, I wouldn't give up on DA- I have both DA and regular SM, and the DA look better on the table.

 

In terms of advice, you can run both DA and regular SM in two distinct combined arms detachments in the same army- they are battle brothers- this matters because your collection reads as a Dark Vengeance set (the Limited Edition one with Seraphicus)+DA expansion+Deathwing Knights+other kits. Am I right? If I am right, that Librarian is very very easy to convert to a biker Librarian, as a point of consideration. Further, a dataslate for that formation was released over Xmas. Is it the highest end ever? No, but it's an additional option you should be aware of. As I recall, everything causes Fear or gains Hatred: CSM, something like that.

 

A Doublewing detachment has some advantages. Your bikes and speeder are scoring, and you have very flexible Deep Strike, and it lets you use all three available Terminator squads (Deathwing Knights, Terminator Squad, and Terminator Command Squad) for dedicating either your Scouts or one Tac squad to this CAD.  It allows you to do a Hammer and Anvil style deployment.

 

Does your local group use Forgeworld? Mortis Dreadnoughts are pretty solid for AA, and you are only a single assault cannon arm (easily converted if you don't want to buy) away from having one.

 

In terms of making your Greenwing models Codex Space Marine models, you need to decide if you are playing an aggressive list, a balanced list, or a defensive list. This is how I would plan on allocating my models if I had your collection given the current state of the game:

 

Leave as DA:

 

Scouts

Bikes

Librarian (Convert to a biker Librarian)

Terminator Squad with assault cannon

Terminator Command Squad with heavy flamer, Blade of Caliban, Apothecary, Banner, Lightning Claws, Belial (This squad uses DWA)

Deathwing Knights (This squad deploys in LR)

Land Raider

Nephilim

Dreadnought

Land Speeder

 

These are the changes I would make:

 

Change Dreadnough to Mortis Dreadnought

Get another set of Dark Vengeance bikes via trade. Use second Bike Sarge as basis of Librarian conversion, or convert him to a regular biker

 

The Nephilim and Mortis, if you convert, synergises this with the Skyshield. I don't recall if it can get a comms relay, but it would be a good idea if it can to spend the points, and that bit comes with the bastion which you already have.

 

 

Remaining Models:

 

1 Bastion

1 Imperial Knight Paladin with Rapid fire battle cannon / 2X Heavy Stubbers / Reaper Chainsword

1 Predator TL Lascannon / 2X Lascannons

22 Tactical SM with Boltguns

2 Tactical SM with Plasma Guns

2 Tactical SM with Plasma Cannons

1 Tactical SM with Missile Launcher

1 Tactical SM Sergeant with Storm Bolter / Power Fist

1 Tactical SM Sergeant with Storm Bolter / Chain Sword

1 Tactical SM Sergeant with Plasma Pistol / Chain Sword

1 Company Master with Combi-Plasma / Force Sword

1 Interrogator Chaplain with Plasma Pistol / Crozius Arcanum

 

I would organize this way:

 

Purchases: 2 rhinos, 1 razorback (or three razorback kits), Aegis Defense line

 

Knight Paladin: 375 points

Tactical Squad 1: 10 SM, 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Plasma Cannon, Sarge with Plasma Pistol, Chainsword, Meltabombs, Rhino 225 points

Tactical Squad 2: 10 SM, 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Plasma Cannon, Sarge with Storm Bolter, Chainsword, Meltabombs Rhino 215 points

Tactical Squad 3: 10 SM, Missile Launcher, Veteran Sarge with Power Fist, Razorback with twinlinked lascannons (Actually, I'd recommend lascanonn with twinlinked plasma guns, but that's a conversion). Get a meltagun for this squad if possible. Flakk missile. 280 points without meltagun, 290 with

Tri-Las Pred 140 points

Imperial Strongpoint (1 Bastion with Magos Machine Spirit, Quad-Gun, 1 Aegis Defense Line) 205 points

 

HQ is your choice. You don't have a really mobile option, so deploying it within your Razorback is your best bet (this is an aggressive squad anyway with the powerfist). In terms of wargear, either go burning blade captain (based on your models), although you will be vulnerable to instant death; or just go for the Chaplain Fearless+Re-rolls. I'd recommend this:

 

Chapter Master, Burning Blade, Armor Indomitus, Combi-plasma, bolt pistol, meltabombs- 260 points

 

As a rule, I'd combat squad all three Tactical squads.

Combat squad Tactical Squad 3 and place missile launcher in the Bastion. Put the Pred behind the Aegis line. This is your firebase. You have the quadgun and flakk missile for flyers if needed, otherwise this squad has a missile launcher and 1-2 heavy bolters, depending on facing, with automated turret fire. The Pred has cover behind the Aegis line at all times

Use the Knight to anchor one flank.

Use the Sarges+assault weapons to disembark on objectives. The plasma cannons stay in parked rhinos, once they park, to turn the rhinos into quasi-razorbacks. Use the Armor Indomitus to use your orbital bombardment whenever you leap out of the Razorback, or to fire your combi-plasma and charge.

 

That's a total of 1710/1720. No single chapter tactic really benefits this list. I'd go with Iron Hands personally, and add a few more vehicles- an Ironclad dread in pod and a Storm Talon with Skyhammer missiles would work well. Or you can ignore my  initial "leave these as DA" advice and bring in a squad of terminators, but I'd spend points on a comms relay if doing that- Comms+Assault Cannon+Chainfist would be 245 more points. That's 1965, and odd number.

 

I really dislike recommending buying a bit, but really, I'd go 2 rhinos, 1 razorback, 1 Aegis line, the pod, the Ironclad, the Storm Talon (or a second Pred) and Iron Hands tactics.

[deadwing34]

Lots of good comments about what to get, thanks everyone for the help.

 

They have lots of Rhinos on ebay without any weapons, do people suggest using Rhinos without any weapons at all?

 

Also what is the general tactic with having the Rhinos. Are they used to drop off Tactical squads at objectives and then go off alone to capture other objectives?

[Guest]

Also what is the general tactic with having the Rhinos. Are they used to drop off Tactical squads at objectives and then go off alone to capture other objectives?

Really depends on your army.

 

At times, rhino is as you say, just to go off and capture objectives.

 

You can also use them as shields (as in cover saves) for your other infantry/vehicles.

 

There's a pretty solid tactic using rhinos to block LOS for various reasons.

 

As for purchasing rhinos without weapons, you'll need to get a storm bolter per rhino for the base model. Easy enough to make yourself if you cannot get them with the model. You can also trade/convert the rhinos into just about every SM vehicle.

[VonVilkee]

Of the rhinos are cheap like stupid cheap go for it, most of the time I'd reco brand new in box razors tho. Not that much more after considering shipping and time to clean etc. And you will have more options. When you buy used you are locked into what that other person had/did. Just food for thought, your milage may vary.

[deadwing34]

Really depends on your army.

 

At times, rhino is as you say, just to go off and capture objectives.

 

You can also use them as shields (as in cover saves) for your other infantry/vehicles.

 

There's a pretty solid tactic using rhinos to block LOS for various reasons.

 

As for purchasing rhinos without weapons, you'll need to get a storm bolter per rhino for the base model. Easy enough to make yourself if you cannot get them with the model. You can also trade/convert the rhinos into just about every SM vehicle.

Ok battle scribe was throwing me off every Rhino comes with one storm bolter but you can add an additional one for 5 pts. Ok got it thanks.

[Guest]

Seems to me most people are saying I am missing Rhinos any other core units/models I should get like a thunder fire cannon?

Try to get two models of every basic PA (power armor) marine with a special or heavy weapon. At present, your special and heavy weapon options are basically plasma weapons and missile launchers. This alone is hugely limiting the flexibility of your space marines. 

 

Rhinos would be the next stage. I'd get the rhino chasis and leave the top hatch and side doors unglued. I'd then look into making/purchasing pred sponsons, pred turrets, whirlwind turrets, and razorback turrets for your rhinos.

 

SM strong point is being above average against opponents, but not amazing against any one opponent. This is due to the flexibility of the book and the profiles of the basic marines. By not having flexible models, you are crippling attempts at army flexibility.

 

If sticking with DA, the above advice remains true.

 

I'd hold off on C:SM specific units until you can field more of the core SM units in all their options.

[deadwing34]

Try to get two models of every basic PA (power armor) marine with a special or heavy weapon. At present, your special and heavy weapon options are basically plasma weapons and missile launchers. This alone is hugely limiting the flexibility of your space marines. 

 

Rhinos would be the next stage. I'd get the rhino chasis and leave the top hatch and side doors unglued. I'd then look into making/purchasing pred sponsons, pred turrets, whirlwind turrets, and razorback turrets for your rhinos.

 

SM strong point is being above average against opponents, but not amazing against any one opponent. This is due to the flexibility of the book and the profiles of the basic marines. By not having flexible models, you are crippling attempts at army flexibility.

 

If sticking with DA, the above advice remains true.

 

I'd hold off on C:SM specific units until you can field more of the core SM units in all their options.

Sounds like a plan. I was thinking for sure 2 Rhino's and was not sure about about next purchase but I think you are right about getting a box of Devastators that will give me a ton of special weapon options.

 

I think more long term I might be interested in CSM or SW, but right now I am pretty focused on core SM options. The book just has so many options, pretty sure it will keep me busy for a while.

[Guest]

Sounds like a plan. I was thinking for sure 2 Rhino's and was not sure about about next purchase but I think you are right about getting a box of Devastators that will give me a ton of special weapon options.

 

I think more long term I might be interested in CSM or SW, but right now I am pretty focused on core SM options. The book just has so many options, pretty sure it will keep me busy for a while.

Devastator box gives heavy weapons only. Those are good options, but a few tactical squad boxes will be needed for the other weapons. You can certainly order the bits online.

 

If you will be going CSM or SW long term, try to steer away from C:SM specific options, like centurions and thunderfire cannons. Makes it very easy to switch.

[deadwing34]

Devastator box gives heavy weapons only. Those are good options, but a few tactical squad boxes will be needed for the other weapons. You can certainly order the bits online.

 

If you will be going CSM or SW long term, try to steer away from C:SM specific options, like centurions and thunderfire cannons. Makes it very easy to switch.

Looking at what I currently have, what special weapons and heavy weapons should I focus on picking up first, rather than getting them all.

[WestRider]

The Plasmagun is my default Special Weapon. Meltaguns less often, for Units I'm planning to specifically send after heavy Armour. Flamers, I find I rarely need.

 

Combi-Weapons are my usual upgrade for Sergeants, generally matching the Squad's Special. Combi-Plasmas are really easy to convert from a Bolter and a Plasma Pistol, Combi-Meltas are more of a pain.

 

Heavy Weapons, the only one I really like in Tactical Squads is the Multi-Melta. It's cheap, and it really expands the Squad's capabilities. Lascannon and Plasma Cannon, I like in Dev Squads, but they feel a bit overpriced in Tac Squads. Plasma is probably more viable for Tacs, tho. Missile Launchers are overpriced wherever, but not actually bad. Heavy Bolters are basically garbage unless you're using the Sentinels of Terra Supplement.

[BrainFireBob]

^What WestRider said.

 

Match your combi to your assault if you buy. I like PCs in Tacticals, but MM is better- and comes 1 to a box.

 

I think regular ML devs are a bargain, esp for Imp Fists, but they should be backup, not primary, firepower.

 

My recs were based on your initial list. As to specials, ask in Rogue Trading- most of us have extras. I know I do, barring gravguns. The Dev box is actually good value for a GW ADD box, given it has 2 of most things.

[BrainFireBob]

Also, invest in neodymium magnets now, not later. I have 30 heavy weapon troopers and 28 specials that would be 14 and 10 if I magnetised, plus swiss army sarges ROCK.

 

ie, magnetize the arms for weapon swaps with a pin vise.

[Guest]

Looking at what I currently have, what special weapons and heavy weapons should I focus on picking up first, rather than getting them all.

You've got plasma guns, plasma cannons, and missile launchers already. These are great options against MCs and light-mid vehicles. They work well against marines too.

 

Try getting two models with heavy AT weapons that can pen AV14 (lascannons or multi-meltas). Get two models with melta guns. If you intend to take imperial fist chapter tactics, I'd add two models with heavy bolters too. If salamanders, I'd grab a pair of flamer marines.

 

Try a few games at low point levels where you field 5-man tactical squads with 1 of the above weapons. Decide which fits you best. Remember, this is your army and weapons need to fit your style more than anything. None of the weapons are bad choices, but bringing weapons that you can't play effectively will hinder any army.

[VonVilkee]

Pax is totally right. I dislike plasma personally, love Meltas tho. If looking for specials and combis a sternguard box rocks. I recently bought one built a command squad from it and had lots of combi weapons left over.

 

On the magnets Marines magnetize really well at the wrist I'll snap a few pics of my command squad soon...

[deadwing34]

Ok I just picked up a Rhino and a Razorback. I think I am going to get 2 tactical marines with multi-meltas to replace my plasma cannon guys. I like how you can still snap fires thoses.

[VonVilkee]

Packing up for a game tomorrow and took these of a couple of my command squad boys.