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torn between dwarfs and beast legions and only got a couple weeks to make a decision  :sleep: ... so ill put it to a vote: would you rather see my dwarfs across the table or my legions?  preference on why would be greatly appreciated!

 

just found out i forgot to add in the chaos table(i didnt look at the daemons)... so its actually an 11.7 i think

 

2400 Pts - Legions of Chaos Roster
 
Ungor Raiders (5#, 35 pts)
   5 Ungor Raiders of Slaanesh, 35 pts (Mark of Slaanesh; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Beastman Ambush; Primal Fury; Skirmishers; Volley Fire)
 
Ungor Raiders (5#, 35 pts)
   5 Ungor Raiders of Slaanesh, 35 pts (Mark of Slaanesh; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Beastman Ambush; Primal Fury; Skirmishers; Volley Fire)
 
Gor Herd (42#, 445 pts)
   41 Gor Herd of Nurgle, 445 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Mark of Nurgle; Hand Weapon; Additional Hand Weapon; Beastman Ambush; Primal Fury; Extra Attack)
      1 Foe-Render of Nurgle (Mark of Nurgle; Hand Weapon; Additional Hand Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Extra Attack)
 
Tuskgor Chariot (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Tuskgor Chariot of Slaanesh, 85 pts (Mark of Slaanesh; Impact Hits (D6); Primal Fury; Swiftstride)
      1 Gor Driver (Spear)
      1 Bestigor Warrior (Great Weapon; Always Strikes Last)
      2 Tuskgor
 
Doombull (1#, 363 pts)
   1 Doombull of Tzeentch, 363 pts (General; Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Extra Attack; Eye of the Gods; Fear; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology; Stomp)
      1 Sword of Swift Slaying (Always Strikes First)
      1 Ramhorn Helm
      1 Talisman of Preservation
      1 Gnarled Hide (Scaly Skin (5+))
 
Great Bray-Shaman (1#, 249 pts)
   1 Great Bray-Shaman of Nurgle, 249 pts (Mark of Nurgle; Level 4 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Additional Hand Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Primal Fury; Extra Attack)
 
Exalted Hero (1#, 271 pts)
   1 Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, 271 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Barding; Always Strikes Last)
      1 Armour of Destiny
      1 Scaled Skin (Scaly Skin (5+))
      1 Daemonic Mount (Daemonic Attacks; Fear; Stomp; Swiftstride)
 
Chimera (1#, 275 pts)
   1 Chimera, 275 pts (Flaming Breath; Regenerating Flesh; Fiend Tail; Fly; Large Target; Regeneration; Scaly Skin (4+); Swiftstride; Terror; Thunderstomp; Flaming Attacks)
 
Bestigor Herd (20#, 292 pts)
   20 Bestigor Herd of nurgle, 292 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Mark of nurgle; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Primal Fury; Always Strikes Last)
 
Festus the Leechlord (1#, 190 pts)
   1 Festus the Leechlord, 190 pts (Level 2 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Harbinger of Pestilence; Healing Elixirs; Mark of Nurgle; Poisoned Attacks; Regeneration)
      1 Pestilent Potions
 
Hellstriders of Slaanesh (5#, 105 pts)
   5 Hellstriders of Slaanesh, 105 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Fast Cavalry; Mark of Slaanesh; Soul Hunters; Swiftstride; Vanguard)
      5 Steed of Slaanesh (Armour Piercing; Daemonic Attacks; Fast Cavalry; Fear; Poisoned Attacks; Swiftstride; Vanguard)
 
Razorgor Herd (1#, 55 pts)
   1 Razorgor Herd, 55 pts (Fear; Stomp; Swiftstride)
 
dwarfs:  see the other thread.  most of you know the build i run.... 30 slayers vangaurd, 39 stubborn longbeards with GW, 18 drakes, dual organ guns with accuracy/burning(one), cannon forging, eater and breaker, tough to kill bsb, 3 copters.  i also like the strategy alot with this list.  problem is there's a lot of things on there that just are bad matchups for it, even though its pretty balanced.  oh dwarfs.
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I'm with Romes here. I love me some dorfs, but exciting the army isn't. I think the beasts are more likely to give you decisive games rather than the forced "castle" M3 leaves you.

 

I'd also suggest you swap up the kit on your Doombull to make a Birdbull. I haven't had as much fun with a BoC unit since the halcyon days of 6th Staff of Darkoth.

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I'm with Romes here. I love me some dorfs, but exciting the army isn't. I think the beasts are more likely to give you decisive games rather than the forced "castle" M3 leaves you.

 

I'd also suggest you swap up the kit on your Doombull to make a Birdbull. I haven't had as much fun with a BoC unit since the halcyon days of 6th Staff of Darkoth.

yea i did go back and forth with carpet or not for a while.  it does complement the two other speedy elements of the list... but ive also played against the carpet bull as well(on UB) and its just not as resilient as the tooled up bull.  i mean they are easier to hide from cannons with fly and you can jump in their face and kill chaff or something to feed him, but he's not as strong in combat.   plus you cant use swiftstride to chase things down anyways and he can never join a unit which sometimes you may want that(i sometimes will join him with the bsb to give him ItP and the attack... wont do that with FT/dwellers/purple stupid/etc on the board though)  :sad: i appreciate any more advice as well though.  like getting my brain thinking and thats a good idea!  :)

but yea i just need to get on a painting spree and get the beasts ready.  as much as i love meh stunties, they are not as fun to play or paint as my beastmen legions   :sleep:

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Ehh, I've never had my Birdbull die in a game and I brought it to SPDM5 a few months ago (which was an uncomped event with all sorts of nastiness).  With good placement he can dodge most artillery and his 3++ tends to save him from the odd shot.  As for him not being strong in combat, that is just hogwash.  Dude starts with 6 Str8 attacks along with D3 Str 6 impact/1 Str 6 Stomp.  After getting revved up he can pretty much fight anything short of ET characters and expect to be winning.  Killing chaff is an OK idea for him to start, but only if you have a way to extricate him if he flubs dice as he needs to be running around the table murdering.  I view his Bloodgreed as a boon mostly as I use it to corral an otherwise very truculent model (I don't want him overrunning out of reach of help).  The lists I've run him in with success tend to have three combat flyers and a decent number of other mounted unit to abuse their speed.  Generally something like the DP will get into a fight a block while Birdbull sneaks up the flank killing the support.  In the turn or two it takes for the DP to whittle whatever he's fighting down Birdbull is often all revved up and ready to murderkill the remainder.  

 

Beast legion is definitely a fun concept.  My current idea for a BSB-type list is:

 

Doombull: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; Mark of Tzeentch 360
Great Bray-Shaman: Shard of the Herdstone; Talisman of Preservation; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Death; additional hand weapon 334

Exalted Hero: Talisman of Endurance; Dragonhelm; Mark of Tzeentch; halberd; Daemonic Mount (barding); Battle Standard Bearer 241
Gorebull: Blackened Plate; Gnarled Hide; Sword of Striking; heavy armour; shield; Mark of Tzeentch 232

10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: standard bearer 140
10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: standard bearer 140
10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: standard bearer 140
Tuskgor Chariot: Mark of Slaanesh 85
Tuskgor Chariot: Mark of Slaanesh 85
10 Ungor Raiders: Mark of Slaanesh; Musician 73

Chimera: Regenerating Flesh 245
5 Chaos Trolls: additional hand weapons 190

Skullcannon of Khorne 135

2,400 points

Most of that is due to models available, but it is very similar to my uncomped list at 2500 which had Birdbull as one of, if not the, most impactful units I field.

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sorry i wasnt implying that he was 'terrible' in combat lol no he's still a killing machine and S8 is always great.  but he can lose to static res still if he isnt frenzy pumped and the lack of armor isnt great either so wounds will leak through.  ive beat that build in CC twice.  but he's still great and does have mobility.  serves a slightly different role is all im saying.  still darn good especially with MoT.  and who doesnt like bulls on carpets?!

 

as for your list: ugh. yeeea thats nice lol.  whats the swedish on it?  i dont think they accounted enough for combinations(pink horrors and herdstone being one example) in BSB but eh not like my list doesnt have a few!  i was totally going to do the gorebull troll thing IF i had trolls and i wanted to deal with stupidity... could of converted my worthless(although with marks not so much..) minos to be puking but i dont think that would fly as a wysiwyg :) but yea you should do VERY well at BSB with that list.  and i love seeing more beasts :)  we had a local small point event here not too long ago and beast heavy legions went 7-1(with the one loss to the other beast lol)!  honestly im just happy for marks which they needed...

 

side note: i just made a deal with a friend and one of the conditions is that i buy/convert a skull cannon........... he's laughing hard about it cause he's pounded me with them and i just rage about them.  its going to be painful painting that! i dont think ive ever hated a single model more than skull cannons lol especially as a dwarf player who pays 120 for one that isnt a chariot nor has a ward save.   kind of want to just throw a razorgor chariot with an empire cannon and ungor then call it good hehe.   i would love to hear matt ward's explanation for point values, but i know it was probably 'i did some bad drugs that day'.  ok ill stop whining about skull cannons now :)  one is totally fine though.  its two that is dirty, especially with the pew pew magic list.  would probably be an auto-reject for lack of fun to play, like a gunline.  your list though seems fun to play :) ive actually accomplished a lot of painting this week so im probably taking the herd!

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Yeah, he can definitely be beaten in combat and frenzy bating is a little easier given his low Ld and tendency to fly off like an idiot, but just being smart about his combats is all it takes to push him into "well, that's dice" category. He's just so brutal in a fight that there are very few armies where he doesn't have plenty of targets. I also don't lament his low armor save as he tends to die in a big way rather than end up with a thousand papercuts. This is generally due to the way my chaos lists operate (ie point denial is for wimps).

As for that list, each unit of horrors is actually pretty high comp as they're hit pretty hard in MSU due to Gateway abuse and then the Herdstone hits em again. I've also found it to be way more of a deterrent than the powerhouse people who haven't thought the combo through make it out to be (sorta like how 6th ed horrors functioned). The comp is around an 8.7 which is not too bad considering how many "power pieces" I've included. I've also run it at around an 11 using Marauders and no horrorstone, but it just didn't have the punch to match up against other lists in the same bracket. I was playing around with lower rated Legion lists, but as BSB isn't using the comp for anything other than round one match ups (why even use Swedish then?) I don't see the incentive to bring a different list.  Not even from a competitive side, but also from a hobby one where my Legion looks pretty spiffy and I would need to do serious modeling work to make the list demonstrably worse...for no gain.

 

The trolls are also a bit of a laugh (speaking of not worth it).  They unit is like Birdbull without all the maneuverability which makes it pretty much just a "for kicks" sorta thing.  They are a great laugh, however, so I would recommend trying the build out.

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so after getting 'cannoned and FT'd' off by romes list last week with my beast legion i fared quite better against the skaven.  mostly due to evan channeling an 'inner nate' with failing a very necessary march test with his verminlord and me taking care of the skitter leap in magic to charge him him with my big block of gor and run him off.  super intense game overall and came down to really two combat phases involving my gor unit with lvl4 and festus(who always seems to die...).  him failing a march test/skitterleap and the abom deciding not to 'try' to get into combat was really the game more than my tactics.  still have great games against rudra(always have) and he teaches me about beastmen so always learn something from our games!  much better dice in combat for me this time as well.  i dont think i rolled a 1 at all with the doombull?! of course bsb never passes his 3++ but not complaining with the luck all together.  oh and i should never ever ever take my chimera out of the box again... forgot to drop him.  i mean ive forgot to ambush before but NEVER forgot to have dropped something in deployment... embarassing on my part :(  hellstriders even though they die all the time they are so much fun!  i love M10 fast cav.  its so relieving coming from a dwarf player lol.  and seriously 35 point ungor raiders are THE BOMB.  feels good to off gutter runners when they always seem to you know, mess me up like they should ha.  hope rudra and raindog had fun with the game i left them!  im liking beastmen a lot lately, even more than dwarfs and that kinda saddens me to say but eh such are times a changin.....

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so this is the list i will probably regularly start using/testing after BSB.  I would have loved to bring this to the brawl(tired of baby-sitting the ld6 pig and ld5 bird), but unfortunately not getting the daemon prince done in time.  curious since surprisingly i havent faced a daemon prince yet: whats the hate level on a NON-casting daemon prince?  this guy synergizes with my list very well.  quite opposite of my dwarfs which is what i was going for :)  and why is everyone so secretive about their lists?!  pansies... :cool:

 

 

2400 Pts - Legions of Chaos Roster

Ungor Raiders (5#, 35 pts)
   5 Ungor Raiders of Slaanesh, 35 pts (Mark of Slaanesh; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Beastman Ambush; Primal Fury; Skirmishers; Volley Fire)

Ungor Raiders (5#, 35 pts)
   5 Ungor Raiders of Slaanesh, 35 pts (Mark of Slaanesh; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Beastman Ambush; Primal Fury; Skirmishers; Volley Fire)

Gor Herd (42#, 445 pts)
   41 Gor Herd of Nurgle, 445 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Mark of Nurgle; Hand Weapon; Additional Hand Weapon; Beastman Ambush; Primal Fury; Extra Attack)
      1 Foe-Render of Nurgle (Mark of Nurgle; Hand Weapon; Additional Hand Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Extra Attack)

Tuskgor Chariot (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Tuskgor Chariot of Slaanesh, 85 pts (Mark of Slaanesh; Impact Hits (D6); Primal Fury; Swiftstride)
      1 Gor Driver (Spear)
      1 Bestigor Warrior (Great Weapon; Always Strikes Last)
      2 Tuskgor

Doombull (1#, 363 pts)
   1 Doombull of Tzeentch, 363 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Extra Attack; Eye of the Gods; Fear; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology; Stomp)
      1 Sword of Swift Slaying (Always Strikes First)
      1 Ramhorn Helm
      1 Talisman of Preservation
      1 Gnarled Hide (Scaly Skin (5+))

Great Bray-Shaman (1#, 249 pts)
   1 Great Bray-Shaman of Nurgle, 249 pts (Mark of Nurgle; Level 4 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Additional Hand Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Primal Fury; Extra Attack)

Exalted Hero (1#, 234 pts)
   1 Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, 234 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Chaos Armour; Shield; Eye of the Gods; Barding; Always Strikes Last)
      1 Talisman of Endurance
      1 Daemonic Mount (Daemonic Attacks; Fear; Stomp; Swiftstride)

Bestigor Herd (20#, 309 pts)
   19 Bestigor Herd of Khorne, 309 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Mark of Khorne; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Extra Attack; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology; Primal Fury; Always Strikes Last)
      1 Gouge-Horn of Khorne (Mark of Khorne; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Extra Attack; Eye of the Gods; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology; Always Strikes Last)
      1 Gleaming Pennant

Festus the Leechlord (1#, 190 pts)
   1 Festus the Leechlord, 190 pts (Level 2 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Eye of the Gods; Harbinger of Pestilence; Healing Elixirs; Mark of Nurgle; Poisoned Attacks; Regeneration)
      1 Pestilent Potions

Hellstriders of Slaanesh (5#, 105 pts)
   5 Hellstriders of Slaanesh, 105 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Fast Cavalry; Mark of Slaanesh; Soul Hunters; Swiftstride; Vanguard)
      5 Steed of Slaanesh (Armour Piercing; Daemonic Attacks; Fast Cavalry; Fear; Poisoned Attacks; Swiftstride; Vanguard)

Daemon Prince (WoC) (1#, 350 pts)
   1 Daemon Prince (WoC) of Slaanesh, 350 pts (General; Daemon of Slaanesh; Daemonic Flight; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armour; Armour Piercing; Daemonic Attacks; Daemonic Invulnerability; Fly; Hatred (Daemons of Khorne); Immune to Psychology; Swiftstride; Terror; Thunderstomp; Unbreakable)
      1 Sword of Striking
      1 Charmed Shield
      1 Scaled Skin (Scaly Skin (5+))
      1 Soul Feeder

 

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