Jump to content

Did I pick a bad time to build Fantasy?


Recommended Posts

I think Fantasy actually is in the opposite boat right now, its as big as Ive ever seen it.

 

Tournaments are filling up and people seem to be really into it right now, even with all the "doom and darkness". A lot of players have failed their leadership tests and are panicking. I refuse to do that. The End Times books are some of the best fantasy products Ive seen in a very long time. I have all the books so far and have been thoroughly impressed with the story and progression of the world. I mean for 15+ years the game was at a standstill story wise and its refreshing (for me) to see change, kill beloved characters, and create a more treacherous environment for the "good guys". 

 

Id tell you to not let others discourage you from building an army, we are fortunate enough in the NW to have a solid community of WHFB players. Regardless of what happens in 9th, you will get games in locally. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What will 9th look like, we are not sure. That being said WHFB will continue to be played.

 

Also being a WoC player you are in a good position since they will be an army that has been getting lots of support in ET and will be a major force in 9th from the looks of things.

 

Also if you are new to fantasy there won't be any sacred cows for you when the new rules come out and you will be learning the new rules with the rest of us.

 

I may be on the more negitive side of things in most of these discussions but that is only becuase of my concern for a few armies 'rumored' to be condensed into single books (possibly limiting the number of units) and the future of Lizardmen.

 

In the last few weeks rumors have been actually good but still don't address the Lizardmen. To recap the latest 9th will not be a small scale game but one with less focus on warmachines and more magic. ( probably some rule changes to cannons and more magical items or units with access to magical abilities.) The other rumor is one that may point to a new Mordhiem game to come out around the time of 9th.

 

Again these are Rumors but coming again from similar sources as the previous ones. So have your salt ready.

 

As for the round base rumors I am wondering if the beginning of it started with the picture of the Skaven Bell on a round base in the background of a picture and may actually be an artistic choice that started the rumor. (Pretre has been right many times before) And since the round base rumor has died down it very well maybe false. (I am so praying for it to be false.)

 

So my point is if you are starting a WoC army you should have no worries, aside from possibly having some Daemons and Beastmen to add to your army when the new book comes out. Just stick to buying WoC for now though.

 

And no matter what there will be players like Mexicaninja and myself that will still be playing 9th. So yes, WHFB will continue on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you played any 8th ed fantasy Scott? I'd say borrow an army if you don't have one table ready, and get in some games. I have no idea what is going to happen with fantasy. So my advice is, play it now to see if you like it. If so, then I'm sure 8th ed games will be around for a good long time. Try 9th at your own risk :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you played any 8th ed fantasy Scott? I'd say borrow an army if you don't have one table ready, and get in some games. I have no idea what is going to happen with fantasy. So my advice is, play it now to see if you like it. If so, then I'm sure 8th ed games will be around for a good long time. Try 9th at your own risk :)

#toomanyrulesinmyheadalready

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fixxer FTW.  What he said.

The meta is bigger now and the ET might have something to do with it, moving the story forward was needed. I am not even sad to see the characters killed. Yet I still think ET reads like a Chaos player's porn mag. I am just hoping the End Times doesn't leave off with no wins for the 'good side?' but once again swings back to a stalemate were both sides are fighting for an upper hand.

 

I maybe biased since I don't care for Chaos and would love to see Grimgor beat Archaon to a bloody pulp again before leaving him there to be dragged off by his followers to the North again.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The meta is bigger now and the ET might have something to do with it, moving the story forward was needed. I am not even sad to see the characters killed. Yet I still think ET reads like a Chaos player's porn mag. I am just hoping the End Times doesn't leave off with no wins for the 'good side?' but once again swings back to a stalemate were both sides are fighting for an upper hand.

 

I maybe biased since I don't care for Chaos and would love to see Grimgor beat Archaon to a bloody pulp again before leaving him there to be dragged off by his followers to the North again.

Why?  When Storm of Magic hit the "good guys" smashed the "evil" guys like no ones biz.  It's nice to see humanity struggling for existence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why? When Storm of Magic hit the "good guys" smashed the "evil" guys like no ones biz. It's nice to see humanity struggling for existence.

Like I said, I don't care for Chaos and seeing it control the world. I like stories where humanity fights to survive but killing all hope and leaving the world adevils playground would totally kill the fluff for me.

 

I don't like reading stories where a murderer, rapeist, religous killer is treated as a hero and given to final victory. In my eyes chaos is all those and then some and doesn't deserve to win anything besides minor victories.

 

It is a story prospective for me, I can enjoy an antihero from time to time but from a story prespective routing for Chaos would be like me routing for the Nazis or ISIS. I like the heros who protects the children and fights for a brighter future for them. (I have always been like this even before my son.)

 

So seeing every culture besides the Skaven culture (I don't see chaos as a culture but more as a colection of fanatical killers traveling together.) is getting to be a bit much for my taste. There needs to be some hope to cling to and a hero to follow for the story to be a good story by the classical sense.

 

This kind of got side tracked and this is just my opinion based on my taste in stories, but everyone is different. Heck I have friends that liked to read stories about mass murders that I wouldn't even pickup, but they enjoyed them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chaos and Skaven are what set GW apart from other Fantasy worlds. This is their center of intellectual property and the catalyst/antagonist of the entire story of Warhammer. I dont think they are glorifying evil in any way, they are just creating an environment that is unique and different than ALLL the other fantasy worlds that have sissy evil that can barely muster an assault, only to be predictably defeated by "good" guys. Refreshing to see a little reality play out in a fantasy world. 

 

"Now you see, evil will always triumph because good is dumb"

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I'm with you ML, I'm not a fan of the idea of bubbles of reality floating through the warp where the only motivation for the good guys is survival instinct.  Not at all.  I used to play a lot of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and even that world was too dark for my liking.  I don't understand the satisfaction in a world run by the bad guys... I have reality for that :)

I'm more referring to the health of WFB as a whole, and the dedication of the player base I currently see.  Those of us who are in it aren't going anywhere even if they totally botch 9th, and I think a lot of us are hoping it's a fun edition or even a cool new game in an of itself.  I don't think this is a bad time to get back into WFB at all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I'm with you ML, I'm not a fan of the idea of bubbles of reality floating through the warp where the only motivation for the good guys is survival instinct. Not at all. I used to play a lot of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and even that world was too dark for my liking. I don't understand the satisfaction in a world run by the bad guys... I have reality for that :)

I'm more referring to the health of WFB as a whole, and the dedication of the player base I currently see. Those of us who are in it aren't going anywhere even if they totally botch 9th, and I think a lot of us are hoping it's a fun edition or even a cool new game in an of itself. I don't think this is a bad time to get back into WFB at all!

That part I can not disagree with. Despite my concerns this is still an exciting time for WHFB. Not to mention most of the Fantasy players can take a barrel of bad apples and make lemonade from it. Wait... What?

 

So expect WHFB events to fill up quick and to see many different armies that do not follow the Netlist. Just don't expect us to agree with each other all the time. So ignore our Doom and Gloom, we're gamers, we get mellow dramatic from time to time.

 

(The fun part sometimes is watching a conversation go from a positive one to someone complaining to someone complaining about the person complaining to someone complaining about the person complaining about the other person complaining. By then you can stop following the thread becuase it has been so derailed there is no point to it.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said, I don't care for Chaos and seeing it control the world. I like stories where humanity fights to survive but killing all hope and leaving the world adevils playground would totally kill the fluff for me.

 

I don't like reading stories where a murderer, rapeist, religous killer is treated as a hero and given to final victory. In my eyes chaos is all those and then some and doesn't deserve to win anything besides minor victories.

 

It is a story prospective for me, I can enjoy an antihero from time to time but from a story prespective routing for Chaos would be like me routing for the Nazis or ISIS. I like the heros who protects the children and fights for a brighter future for them. (I have always been like this even before my son.)

 

So seeing every culture besides the Skaven culture (I don't see chaos as a culture but more as a colection of fanatical killers traveling together.) is getting to be a bit much for my taste. There needs to be some hope to cling to and a hero to follow for the story to be a good story by the classical sense.

 

This kind of got side tracked and this is just my opinion based on my taste in stories, but everyone is different. Heck I have friends that liked to read stories about mass murders that I wouldn't even pickup, but they enjoyed them.

Well this is were we disagree.  I like the "dark" part of fantasy.  I have always been attracted to it since I first started playing D&D in 1992.  You play Dark Elves, they are more evil than chaos.  They have an entire day (or did before ET) dedicated to slaughtering everything in the city walls.  Personally, I don't like the "fairy tale" bull[big bad swear word] you normally see with fantasy stuff.  I don't want to hear about princesses being saved by knights and riding off in the wind to make babies, build a castle, and rule over peasents.  I want the dark [big bad swear word] that's EVERYWHERE in this world.  If you like Empire then you should know that the Witch Hunters are some evil motha [big bad swear word]ers.  I love what they do, hunt the nasties and hire mercs to do the dirty work they think they are above.

 

As for comparing chaos to Nazis or ISIS.  Well, that's pretty far off.  Chaos isn't trying to "breed" a master race, and they just slaughter what's in their path.  Dark Elves are more comparable to ISIS for their torture.  Again, this is getting off subject.

 

This is the perfect time for the hero's to rise and save the races of men, dwarves, and elves!  How do you think Sigmar was born?  Valten is a legend amongst men.  This is the perfect time for the great heroes (Luthor Huss, Karl Franz, Thorgrim, Balthasar).  It is also a time to introduce the new ones.  If 9th is going to change things, why not kill off characters so new ones may be added.  You forget that the same thing is happening to Elf characters.  Just because they are Empire and Dwarves doesn't make them heroes.  Remember when The Empire didn't get along and they didn't take care of the people?  I don't see this the same way as you and I'm greatly enjoying it.

 

I love that the world is about to change in 9th.  Is it good or bad?  No one knows yet.  Again, who has seen the final product, who can say what is final and what isn't?

 

Now, for the original question.  I believe this is the perfect time to get into the game.  It's even more awesome that you're doing it with chaos.  You have a low model count army.  Chaos will be around in 9th.  The story is amazing right now and you are seeing what has the potential to be one of the greatest stories and outcomes for fantasy.  There are more people playing fantasy, especially in our area, than I have seen in a long time.  There are sooo many ways to play the game right now:

 

8th Edition standard

Triumph and Treachery

Storm of Magic

End Times

There's also siege battle rules and the campaign books are out there as well

 

When was the last time you saw this many varieties to play the game?  Even with 9th approaching, I hope they continue to give us the variety and all these great supplements.

 

Welcome to the game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles and just enjoy the game for what it is at the moment and embrace the change which is taking place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...So expect WHFB events to fill up quick and to see many different armies that do not follow the Netlist...

How many netlists do you see and play against now?   I don't find this a valid statement for this thread if he's in the Portland area....or the majority of the PNW.  I have yet to see a netlist at any event or gaming club, since moving here in 2010.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many netlists do you see and play against now? I don't find this a valid statement for this thread if he's in the Portland area....or the majority of the PNW. I have yet to see a netlist at any event or gaming club, since moving here in 2010.

That was my point. There are not really Netlisters in the NW WHFB scene and it is one built on players bringing what they want to play. If he has played in the 40K scene he would know what I am talking about. (More at the LGS, not so much WOW.)

 

As for playing Dark Elves I never wanted them to conquer the High Elves and when reading the fluff I always disliked Morathi more than any other elf. But I am not playing them for the fluff. I also play Orcs and find some of their fluff fun but I don't want them destroying the World either. So there is a difference in playing an army and hoping the fluff is all about them winning.

 

 

(Also what do you think Maruders and WoC do when they descend on a town. They not only kill everyone but they also torture, rape and sacrifice souls to the dark gods damning their souls for eternity. That is seriously bad in my book. I have read several books with chaos characters in them and they make anything you can think of look tame. I mean.... just down right nasty [big bad swear word]. Eww. Read Sword of Justice and Sword of Vengence to see some really really twisted [big bad swear word]. And I mean stuff that you can't forget. So when I think of what happened to the cities that fell I remember the books I read and what happened to the citizens of those towns and think a quick death would be mercy compared to what Chaos followers want to do to them.)

 

But I don't mind the world being pushed to the edge, I just want to see some hope for humanity soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's a good way for GW to clean the slate on everything and shatter the world into these little bubbles. Then they reintroduce a rise of new heroes and smash all the bubbles together and now boom they can write new back ground with new heroes, change up the races and most of they can change up the actual layout of the world which means they can avoid stagnation and write all new stories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks like aside from our preference in fluff we all pretty much agree.

 

WHFB is not losing popularity, and is even getting more players back, and it is also solid scene with good players bringing deverse lists.

 

I can totally live with that.

 

On the extra bright side the latest rumors are pointing to the privious rumors as being over stated and the changes are not going be as drastic as mentioned. They say there will be 'some' models on round bases but they are not manditory. Army books will not be out right combined but there will be units and characters that can join a Forces Of Good or a Forces of Chaos. A more limited version of allies. And old models will not be invalidated. But these are rumors, so yeah, salt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the End Times is an exciting time to get back into Fantasy. With it's rules changes and new models, it makes the game fresh again, and can bring back many a Fantasy player that left for other endeavors. I also love Warhammer partly because of the fluff. It is why I started with High Elves. And for once I actually enjoy the campaign supplements that GW is releasing in the End Times. I would go as far as to say it is a good time to come back to the game if you are an existing player, and to test out the new rules, and in the realm of tournaments to boot.

 

However, I will have to disagree with my fellow compatriots, in that, I would have to say that the future of Fantasy is pretty bleak. I think that the rumors given by two-three (Harry, Hastings and Archibald) of the most successful rumormongers will most likely come to fruition, based on their reputation alone. The fact that they all agree and have heard the same thing from different sources corroborates that. And if these rumors do come to pass, then it is a bad time for a new player to build a Fantasy army, and a bad time for existing players to build new armies. With the advent that support for your army will no longer exist, rules-wise and models-wise, and my lack of interest in supporting a gaming company that would leave their players in the dust like this, I feel that, yes, it will be pretty bleak indeed. I will say that I will still play 8th edition - pre-bubblehammer, but I probably won't be purchasing new models for my armies, at least until the dust settles from 9th/skirmish. Nevermind the fact that they will most likely discontinue a huge swath of their models, making them unavailable for purchase anyway, let alone having to rebase all my gd models with round bases.

 

There are other companies that do skirmish, and they do it better. Privateer Press has been doing it for over a decade and are already established, and I'm sure they've taken their share of players/potential players away from gw (maybe not a ton, but definitely some). And now GW is trying to revitalize their revenue stream by coming out with their own skirmish game with monthly releases? You're a decade behind. It's like when WAR came out 4 years after WoW. People are already invested in WoW. They're not going to switch to a [big bad swear word]tier version of the same game for the ridiculous prices that GW is most likely going to offer. And to top it off, who wants to invest in a company that is known for scrapping support for an entire genre of their player base?

 

Corvus Belli is a great example of a company that just does things right. Free rules. New models every month for each faction. Solid forum with customer support. Direct answers to any question you might have. Constantly updated FAQs in the form of 'live' documents that are ever evolving to correspond with FAQs and Errata. Keeping in constant touch with the player base and giving the customers what they want. Creating their own free armybuilder. Cheap to buy into. Gorgeous minis. This. This is how you run a god damn company.

 

I've been playing Warhammer Fantasy for 4 years and the dick f***ers over at GW are absolutely the worst in support and communication with their customers, not to mention their ridiculous prices. It's like they don't understand that pleasing your customer base is actually good for your business. And then I come across other gaming companies and see how amazing they are to their customers, it is just ridiculous to ever think why, oh why would I want to continue supporting a company like GW.

 

Edit: Holy crap. Totally did not start out with a rant in mind.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wisetiger7 I am not saying your concern is not valid but I just want to point out the latest sources are saying that the previous batch of rumors where not really wrong but lacking context and some parts where misunderstood. There is a rumored skirmish game or rules for one that will go Along with the regular battle rules. So it is not going over to a Skirmish style of play for the whole system.

 

So I am having hope that the previous rumors where just over reaction from the rumor mongers, then us, and that the truth is much more tame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Playing the devil's advocate... I wouldn't put it past GW to just eff over everyone.  :laugh:

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the fluff of the Warhammer world, and further like the fluff moving forward with the End Times, and I think ET is actually one of the brighter spots in my experience with GW (other than there being zero new models with ET Khaine, which made me a touch furious, being a high elf and wood elf player, and owning a battalion box plus extras of dark elves).

 

But if the rumors about ending both support and availability of models for 8th, well that's just going to be a shame. It's been a while since I've been able to put my faith and hope in GW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...