Drak Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 currently special characters are allowed within reason in most 8th Edition events, and end times is chuak full of them so I would say look into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Correct. There also aren't any in TK that are considered too much so go nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Thanks. Unrelated: Those serpent men, Sepulchral Stalkers, what are my options if I wanted a very large unit of them? Like, can I add characters, or are they just not viable ranked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Characters are nigh useless for them as TK have none that get Lo,S! rolls from Monstrous Cav, but an extra rank is fine. Just remember that they are primarily a ranged unit that should only be getting into fights because there was no other choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Characters are nigh useless for them as TK have none that get Lo,S! rolls from Monstrous Cav, but an extra rank is fine. Just remember that they are primarily a ranged unit that should only be getting into fights because there was no other choice. Hmm. On paper, unit seems rather well equipped to preform a variety of functions. They have the mentioned ranged attack, but they also have halberds (S5 in melee), a heavy armor equivalent, and 3 wounds each. In point price, they are equal in cost to Ushabti, which have similar profiles, but a less versitile profile. Move wise, they have a good movement value and come stock with the TK deep strike ability. So if I attached a character, the main concern is lack of look out sir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Hmm. On paper, unit seems rather well equipped to preform a variety of functions. They have the mentioned ranged attack, but they also have halberds (S5 in melee), a heavy armor equivalent, and 3 wounds each. In point price, they are equal in cost to Ushabti, which have similar profiles, but a less versitile profile. Move wise, they have a good movement value and come stock with the TK deep strike ability. So if I attached a character, the main concern is lack of look out sir? Hmm. On paper, unit seems rather well equipped to preform a variety of functions. They have the mentioned ranged attack, but they also have halberds (S5 in melee), a heavy armor equivalent, and 3 wounds each. In point price, they are equal in cost to Ushabti, which have similar profiles, but a less versitile profile. Move wise, they have a good movement value and come stock with the TK deep strike ability. So if I attached a character, the main concern is lack of look out sir? The character would also need to have the Entombed Beneath the Sands rule in order to pop up in you opponents face and I don't know of any characters that have that in the TK list.And really for SS you want to be popping up in someones face for a quick staring contest.The reason their melee is somewhat meh is they only have a 5+ armor and no command options making them easy to tarpit and crumble down due to CR. On the other hand if you are running Lore of Undead you can summon them with usually a 4 dice cast and a few tokens from previos castings and put them into a nice spot for said starting contest:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Correct. There also aren't any in TK that are considered too much so go nuts. Looked through the special characters. I see what you were saying, nothing is particularly overpowered. High Queen Khalida has Hatred for Vampire Counts, which amusing because she retains it if part of an Undead Legions army and it has no no effect on VC from the UL list as far as I can tell. The notable ones are the Herald Nekaph and Ramhotep the Visionary. Neither are amazing, but both offer nifty support abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Nekaph is very, very, VERY bad as he strikes after most of the game and will likely be cut in half given his terrible defensive stats. Ramhotep, Khatep, Khalida, and Arkhan are all decent if you build your army around them (Khatep less so because he's just a super priest) although I'd really only recommend Ramhotep and Khatep out of that list (Khalida's army is super dull and Arkhan is not the easiest guy to play with). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Nekaph is very, very, VERY bad as he strikes after most of the game and will likely be cut in half given his terrible defensive stats. Ramhotep, Khatep, Khalida, and Arkhan are all decent if you build your army around them (Khatep less so because he's just a super priest) although I'd really only recommend Ramhotep and Khatep out of that list (Khalida's army is super dull and Arkhan is not the easiest guy to play with). Nekaph has that ability which causes the opponent to roll extra dice for fear tests (and discards the lowest). That's the main appeal. Completely agree that his other abilities are rather "meh." Strong potential if combined with a tomb king with Golden Death Mask of Kharnut (terror, plus opponent with 6" can't use general's inspiring presence or BSB hold your ground). Dunno how impressive fear/terror is in warhammer fantasy, but it looks decent on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think fear is kinda meh right now. A significant number of your opponents will be immune to it, and a lot of the models that matter in other armies will be too. It's a great free bonus, but kinda unstable to build around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think fear is kinda meh right now. A significant number of your opponents will be immune to it, and a lot of the models that matter in other armies will be too. It's a great free bonus, but kinda unstable to build around. Fair enough. Leadership reduction, does seem like a reasonably stable sub-build for TK to attempt to focus on. Fear and terror sure, but also the "light of death" via the casket of souls, screaming skull catapult panic tests, "Spirit Leech" via hierotitan or lore of death, Helm of Discord, As for actual reduction, "doom and darkness" via lore of death, the previously mentioned golden mask. Not much here. Perhaps VC can fill the voids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Sure. Note that spirit leech uses unmodified leadership, so doesn't interact with reductions. (but is still a great spell!) Casket does, because it forces a leadership test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Sure. Note that spirit leech uses unmodified leadership, so doesn't interact with reductions. (but is still a great spell!) Casket does, because it forces a leadership test. Thanks for the correction on spirit leech. The limited info I can get battlescribe to tell me about the VC list, has an upgrade for vampires: "aura of dark majesty" as being a very solid -1 to enemy leadership within 6". I'll get a physical copy of this book on Wednesday via GG's league (especially since no one has offered any trades on my rogue trading subforum listing...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Anyway, decided they were worth it and ordered a few more OOP GW mummies via ebay: Guy in the middle would make a great Herald Nekaph, as he's already got a "Flail of skulls" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 The biggest problem with Nekaph is he's far too fragile to be anywhere near worth it. With T4, W2, I3, and Light Armor only he'll likely be dead before he even swings. Add to that that his abilities are decidedly meh and he's just not worth it. Run a prince with a flail if you want a flail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 The biggest problem with Nekaph is he's far too fragile to be anywhere near worth it. With T4, W2, I3, and Light Armor only he'll likely be dead before he even swings. Add to that that his abilities are decidedly meh and he's just not worth it. Run a prince with a flail if you want a flail. Oh, I agree. Not really a fan of special characters in WHFB anyway. In 40k they make a point of making the special characters so underpriced, or over important, that not including them will cripple your army, thankfully, WHFB does not do this. Battlescribe says that the VC have a [screaming] banner that does the same thing as his herald Nekaph's "herald of despair." Only 25pts, so I don't even need to dedicate the BSB to that banner if I take one of the VC units with magic banner access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 VC have several tools to modify/improve their fear effects: 1: aura of dark majesty, -1 to Ld within 6", stacks but not with same ability. 2: supernatural horror, gives terror to a vamp. 3: fear incarnate, roll 3 dice and discard lowest (opposite effect as cold blooded for lizardmen) 4: screaming banner, 25pts, retake successful fear test or cancel enemies bsb reroll. the cursed book has doom and darkness as a possible spell in bound format, and VC characters have access to death magic for regular doom and darkness. this all being said, FEAR/terror in 8th edition is more of an unreliable gimmick than a viable strategy, IMO. there are too many immune to psych/fear/terror units to make this viable in an "all-comers" list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 So, another subject. Which is better: Grave Guard (Full command, 40 models) Tomb Guard (Full Command, 40 models) TK Skeleton Warriors (Full Command, 110 models) Total is 470pts for each. Just thinking about it on paper, seems like I'll want a block of something melee focused, but not sure if more is better, nor am I sure if grave guard are better or worse than tomb guard. Unit sizes are more for identical point cost units, rather than unit sizes I intend to field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 in your example are you giving the grave guard the banner of barrows and great weapons? being the standard build with them they then wreck face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 in your example are you giving the grave guard the banner of barrows and great weapons? being the standard build with them they then wreck face Actually, in the example, all three units have Shield+hand weapon. Grave guard have heavy armor, tomb guard have light armor, and skeletons have no armor. Trying to compare them without banners, magic items, or character attachments. Point is a unit that holds it's position, I'm not really looking to "wreck face" with a block like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Grave Guard are the best unit out of that group (do not run Tomb Guard if given the choice between the two), but just normal skellies are what you want to run for tar pitting given the choice between the three. This is because GG with shields is a waste of GG. Don't run 110 in one unit as that's not really a feasible size, but something like 35-50 is good for skellingtons. If you run GG give em great weapons and run them 30-50 as well. Banner of the Barrows is great, but can be cut for points/ignored if your unit is smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Managed to acquire a metal TK Casket of Souls and 6 metal tomb swarms. Awesome. At present, owned models are: 3x Serpentmen 4x Mummy Models 1x Casket of Souls 6x Tomb Swarms Should probably get some core... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mekhet Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Managed to acquire a metal TK Casket of Souls and 6 metal tomb swarms. Awesome. At present, owned models are: 3x Serpentmen 4x Mummy Models 1x Casket of Souls 6x Tomb Swarms Should probably get some core... I suggest Wargames Factory for your skeletons. They're a bit fragile and finnicky, but they're an order of magnitude cheaper than GW skeletons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Got the VC army book. Some interesting options. I think I'm going to hold off further collecting until I get the existing stuff painted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Got the VC army book. Some interesting options. I think I'm going to hold off further collecting until I get the existing stuff painted. Good to hear:) I know you are set on a TK only army but as ive mentioned previous,Undead Legions is pretty much the "new edition" of TK`s,as in brought up to the current timeline joined with Vamps of course. I would say that playing just the TK book now would be playing a "Historical" scenario of sorts.Reading up on the latest End Times series you would find that due to the unleashing of the winds of magic and the reappearance of Nagash,the old ways that the VC and TK armies functioned is now gone and replaced with a much more volatile magical influence,thus the no more crumble and such.The general consensus as to the future of the Tomb Kings is that the next book release for them will likely just be "Undead Legions" and would replace the Vampire Counts book by including them too...all speculation of course. The meat of the Undead Legions rules is about 3 pages I think and should be readily available on the web,but if you haven't read any of the books,picking up Nagash is a good start and actually still stands to be the best one in the series...im still working through the Elf book myself and the read is still great though:) Even if you don't use any VC units,you could still have a fun and viable full on "Bone" army using the UL rules additions.throw in a wizard with LoU and you can even summon more Bones to the field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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