Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I rarely use allies, but where does it say they can't be from the same faction? Also where is Forgeworld not allowed? I definitely do not want to play there. The main rule book tells you specifically that you cannot use an Allied detachment that has the same Faction. That's a 7E rule and they put all the Imperial Armies in one faction to stop people from doing pretty much exactly what ends up happening at LVO (and others i would assume). So to take a Sister of Battle Force with say, Space Wolves, you'd need a CAD or other formation for the Space Wolf units to be in, because putting those units in an Allied Detachment would be illegal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Because this is the internet, and we're all a bunch of contrarians. The best thing about nerds is the worst thing about nerds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I rarely use allies, but where does it say they can't be from the same faction? Also where is Forgeworld not allowed? I definitely do not want to play there. Main rulebook prevents allies to same faction. Any even LH runs does not allow FW as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 You just described every codex in the game? I didn't. what i described is that the Codex's are forcing the issue of Detachments and i am saying that 1+1 may be too strict, given how they are written and i used SEVERAL codexes as examples. It sounds like we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 And because it is an option doesn't change the basic truth which is that the Codex really really is helped more than should be necessary against certain lists. Legal lists don't allow what LVO is allowing and so in fairness, the 1+1 problem does remain for the codex in tournaments that only allow legal allies. Considering every tournament I've been too in the last couple years uses LVO rules, I don't see it as much of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 It is legal because neither is an ALLIED DETACHMENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The main rule book tells you specifically that you cannot use an Allied detachment that has the same Faction. That's a 7E rule and they put all the Imperial Armies in one faction to stop people from doing pretty much exactly what ends up happening at LVO (and others i would assume). So to take a Sister of Battle Force with say, Space Wolves, you'd need a CAD or other formation of the Space Wolf Codex, because the Allied Detachment would be illegal. That's wrong. You are confusing how factions work. If you were right, then I could choose units from multiple Imperial Codexes and put them in the same CAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The Mephrit detachment is. No, it's a Mephrit detachment. Allied Detachment is a specific detachment in the main rulebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Units that have the following Factions are considered to be Armies of the Imperium:• Adepta Sororitas• Astra Militarum • Blood Angels • Dark Angels • Grey Knights • Imperial Knights • Inquisition • Space Marines • Space Wolves In the case of older publications, the Faction of all the units described in a codex is the same as the codex’s title. In the case of codex supplements, the Faction of all the units described in that publication is the same as the codex it is a supplement of. They are considered Armies of the Imperium for the purposes of Allies, but not for the purposes of Faction. Armies of the Imperium is not a Faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Yes, 1 HQ and 1 Troop minimum. My newest list has one of those and my Decurion. If that's not legal, I need another troops. You can't have a Necron Detachment and an Allied Mephrit Detachment, iirc. They are the same faction. If Mephrit has a special detachment in their book, you can take Necron CAD and Mephrit Special Detachment. Edited February 27, 2015 by pretre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Considering every tournament I've been too in the last couple years uses LVO rules, I don't see it as much of a problem. ...and there was a time when "everyone" was using BAO. There was a time when "Everyone" was using NOVA. I remember Purgatus on this very forum singing it to the rooftops about that as the holy grail. We have Adepticon in the mix too, and then the TSHFT and... I recall a time when Yakface was so well thought of that his FAQ's wwere the stuff of legend. These things go in cycles. And then Highlander came along and we went through a couple rotations of that. So sure. Not an issue to you YET because you choose to attend ones that have that rule set and have not chosen to go to others (I assume). And if LVO says "you know what, this rule on Allies really isn't that bad, and..." and changes it will you then say the same? Maybe. or you'll do what gamers keep doing: gravitating to the one they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 ...and there was a time when "everyone" was using BAO. There was a time when "Everyone" was using NOVA. I remember Purgatus on this very forum singing it to the rooftops about that as the holy grail. We have Adepticon in the mix too, and then the TSHFT and... I recall a time when Yakface was so well thought of that his FAQ's wwere the stuff of legend. These things go in cycles. And then Highlander came along and we went through a couple rotations of that. So sure. Not an issue to you YET because you choose to attend ones that have that rule set and have not chosen to go to others (I assume). And if LVO says "you know what, this rule on Allies really isn't that bad, and..." and changes it will you then say the same? Maybe. or you'll do what gamers keep doing: gravitating to the one they like. BAO is LVO. NOVA is practically the same as BAO/LVO. I gravitate to events that are in my area. So far, everything I've gone to in Portland uses BAO/LVO/NOVA rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 @Necrontyr: In the case of codex supplements, the Faction of all the units described in that publication is the same as the codex it is a supplement of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The Mephrit detachment is. Lets not get confused. Just go read the section again. Allied Detachment is a certain kind of detachment with its own Force org, just like many others. So as long as you take your Necron units and place them in something other than an allied Detachment, a Battle Forged army can consist of as many Detachments as you like. You can have ten Mephrit detachments if you want in a Battle Forged army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 BAO is LVO. NOVA is practically the same as BAO/LVO. I gravitate to events that are in my area. So far, everything I've gone to in Portland uses BAO/LVO/NOVA rules. Yes. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 No problem, I just have 2 - 5 man Immortals instead of 1 - 10 man. Job's done. Check to see if you get cool benefits from the Mephrit detachment too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The main rule book tells you specifically that you cannot use an Allied detachment that has the same Faction. That's a 7E rule and they put all the Imperial Armies in one faction to stop people from doing pretty much exactly what ends up happening at LVO (and others i would assume). So to take a Sister of Battle Force with say, Space Wolves, you'd need a CAD or other formation of the Space Wolf Codex, because the Allied Detachment would be illegal. Man, I shouldn't say anything and just show up with a CAD of Space Wolves and Sisters of Battle mixed together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yes. Exactly. Except that's not what you said at all. You said that I would only go to the ones that had rulings I liked. There are none other than BAO/LVO for me to go to around here. I can't gravitate to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Man, I shouldn't say anything and just show up with a CAD of Space Wolves and Sisters of Battle mixed together. what in the world are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 what in the world are you talking about? Read back a page. You said that all Imperial Armies are the same Faction so you can't take a CAD of Space Wolves with an Allied Detachment of Sisters of Battle. That's wrong. I quoted the rulebook on the previous page to show you where it was wrong. Armies of the Imperium only exists on the Allies chart and does not change the faction of the units. Units that have the following Factions are considered to be Armies of the Imperium:• Adepta Sororitas• Astra Militarum • Blood Angels • Dark Angels • Grey Knights • Imperial Knights • Inquisition • Space Marines • Space Wolves In the case of older publications, the Faction of all the units described in a codex is the same as the codex’s title. In the case of codex supplements, the Faction of all the units described in that publication is the same as the codex it is a supplement of. If what you had said was right (all armies of the imperium are the same faction) than you could mix units from different armies of the imperium (ex: SW and SOB) in the same CAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Except that's not what you said at all. You said that I would only go to the ones that had rulings I liked. There are none other than BAO/LVO for me to go to around here. I can't gravitate to anything. Actually it IS what i said. you're reading into this too much and personalizing. Go to whatever event you like. It has no bearing on Detachment numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Pretre: Except that's not what you said at all. You said that I would only go to the ones that had rulings I liked. There are none other than BAO/LVO for me to go to around here. I can't gravitate to anything. Actually it IS what i said. you're reading into this too much and personalizing. Go to whatever event you like. It has no bearing on Detachment numbers. Hanaur: So sure. Not an issue to you YET because you choose to attend ones that have that rule set and have not chosen to go to others (I assume). And if LVO says "you know what, this rule on Allies really isn't that bad, and..." and changes it will you then say the same? Maybe. or you'll do what gamers keep doing: gravitating to the one they like. So how is that not what you said? Geeze, keep track of what extreme position you're taking from page to page. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Read back a page. You said that all Imperial Armies are the same Faction so you can't take a CAD of Space Wolves with an Allied Detachment of Sisters of Battle. That's wrong. I quoted the rulebook on the previous page to show you where it was wrong. Armies of the Imperium only exists on the Allies chart and does not change the faction of the units. Again, I think you misunderstand me entirely. So that you're clear...and don't do something illegal... and don't think that in some bizarre manner ive told you its okay... You cannot... under any circumstances... Place Space Wolves into the same Combined Arms Detachment as your Sisters of Battle. on what planet you would come to that conclusion, I don't know. But now you should be as crystal clear as can be o nthe subject. One hopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Again, I think you misunderstand me entirely. So that you're clear...and don't do something illegal... and don't think that in some bizarre manner ive told you its okay... You cannot... under any circumstances... Place Space Wolves into the same Combined Arms Detachment as your Sisters of Battle. on what planet you would come to that conclusion, I don't know. But now you should be as crystal clear as can be o nthe subject. One hopes. No, I think you misunderstand you entirely. The main rule book tells you specifically that you cannot use an Allied detachment that has the same Faction. That's a 7E rule and they put all the Imperial Armies in one faction to stop people from doing pretty much exactly what ends up happening at LVO (and others i would assume). So to take a Sister of Battle Force with say, Space Wolves, you'd need a CAD or other formation for the Space Wolf units to be in, because putting those units in an Allied Detachment would be illegal. CAD says that all units have to be from the same faction; just like Allied Detachment says that you can't have any units that are the same faction as your primary detachment. By your post that I just quoted, All Imperial Armies are one faction. That means, by the same logic, that if you can't include other imperial armies in your allied detachment because they are the same faction, you can include any units from any Imperial Army in the same CA because they are the same faction. Again, keep track of your extreme positions. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 So how is that not what you said? Geeze, keep track of what extreme position you're taking from page to page. :) Because you are reading it on its own out of context like usual, looking for something to be mad about. What i said was if LVO changes ITS rules... I'm gonna' do this slow... If the LVO changes ITS rules to be NOT this way, then you will likely do what other gamers do and gravitate to the ones you like. This was said in the context of the many other "holy grails" that came before this one and how it has shifted over the years. Remember the INAT? Since this hasn't happened yes... We cant really know. I guess we'll see what happens then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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