pretre Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I can tell you that I have no interest in reading the last book now. What is the point? It all ends. Doesn't matter who dies or who kills or what is beaten...it all goes away. I know it is all fiction, but I enjoyed playing and imagining it had some purpose. It was motivation. There isn't any now. Technically, all stories end with the inevitable heat death of the universe. Time to stop reading books. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'm going to start a tournament where everyone has to bring their own 6' x 4' Battle Board. Get them all set up in a big room and everyone deploys in the middle of their table. Then roll scatter dice until two boards bump together. Then FIGHT! The winner gets to stand in a room alone with a ball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Heroes always die! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted March 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Heroes always die!Ok, calm head now. Of course all Heroes die. But there is a difference between a Hero dying to save his friend, family, city or world than just saying "now everyone is swallowed up by the nothingness." I mean the End Times books where all one sided where the good guys lost at every turn. I kept waiting to see when the good guys might get a break and save something. But it was a futile battle. In novel terms that's what you call a bad story line. It started with "the bad guys are stronger than you and we are going to kick your ass." and it ended with "we are the bad guys and we were stronger than you and we kicked your ass." and everything in between was the same thing. In essence it was a Snuff series and I hate Snuff stories. I didn't even like the way the last X-Men had everyone killed even though they brought everyone back by changing time. That stuff is just not my bag at all and I find it depressing. A hero that dies saving the day I actually find lifts my spirits and makes life feel like it worth fighting for. That is why we normally read tales of fiction, to find inspiration and get away from the normal everyday life. But that is just my opinion, I really really didn't like how they ended it. We are entitled to our own opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Seriously, we always knew the ascendancy of Chaos was inevitable. That has been the fluff since day one. That's what makes the grimdark majesty of WHFB so compelling. It's not fantasy, it's dark fantasy. The world was brutal and destruction, decay, and corruption were facts of life. I love that about Warhammer, and am stoked that they finally told that story. No shining white knight to save the day at the last minute, no feel-good hoo-ha to placate the goodies. I just hope they go back and say, yeah, destruction is inevitable, but let's play in the End Times, knowing it's all going to go to hell (literally!). We know what fate is, but let's fight like what we do matters. I love the fatalism of the Norse myths. Ragnarok is inevitable. Odin is going to die, full-stop. But that only makes the fight against the inevitable more epic and more tragic. Of course, GW will F it up, but that's inevitable, too. :) EDIT: Wyrd bið ful aræd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Ok, I hear you JMGraham but I would argue the difference between Ragnorok and End Times is that it was told to the men over and over so they would not be afraid of death. It wasn't fatalism becuase it taught that even in death it is not the end and you will be back to do this again, after spending much time festing in the halls of Valhalla. Even after Ragnorok the cycle starts again and you will be back to do it all over. They believed very much in life after death. But I will say of all the WHFB books I have read you knew things were bad but there was always a shread of hope that was fought for and the end of the story wasn't all puppies and wine but the balance was partially restored. This whole end time thing was so one sided and I kept waiting for a good tale of sacrifice that prolongs the life of humanity longer. But it just kept getting worse every step till it ended like a bad joke. The Chaos Gods just got bored and wandered off to do it again. ??????? Again I don't like this kind of tales. It serves no propose to me. (I've got my degree in Nursing and have seen enough fatalism. I want more heroes over coming the fatalism.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The Norse got to party in Valhalla (or rot with Hel), but when Ragnarok comes, everybody fights, and everybody dies. Sure, there's the nod toward this being a cycle, but that's not the focus. There's an afterlife, but when Ragnarok comes, the afterlife is over. There is no happily ever after. There are hints of the cycle repeating in the End Times, but again, that's not the focus. The focus is that it has ended. The Norse sense of fatalism came from the idea that fate unfolds as it will, and the best man can hope for is to live courageously, create a reputation, and possibly impress fate along the way. Courageous acts in the face of inevitable doom are much more impressive to me than courageous acts with a hope of changing things. I hate to assume high-brow literary intentions when it comes to GW, but I'll choose to make sense of it in my own head the way that brings me the most pleasure. Gǣð ā Wyrd swā hīo scel! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Huh. I just realized that what I'm espousing is akin to the philosophy of Nurgle in the old RoC: Lost and the Damned book. Decay and death are inevitable. Hope springs from despair (any typos are because I'm typing this on an iPad): "What is the response of living men to the undeniable and inevitable futility of life? Is it to lie down and accept death and the coming to naught of their every endeavour? No it is not! Faced with the inevitability of death what answer can there be to run through life at a great and unstoppable pace, cramming each day with hope, laughter, noise, and bustle. Thus, happiness and human endeavor are sired by a coming to terms with decay and futility. This realization is the key to understanding the Great Lord of Decay and his worshippers." It fits perfectly, and given the attention NUrgle was given, it makes me wonder if it was intentional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Huh. I just realized that what I'm espousing is akin to the philosophy of Nurgle in the old RoC: Lost and the Damned book. Decay and death are inevitable. Hope springs from despair (any typos are because I'm typing this on an iPad): "What is the response of living men to the undeniable and inevitable futility of life? Is it to lie down and accept death and the coming to naught of their every endeavour? No it is not! Faced with the inevitability of death what answer can there be to run through life at a great and unstoppable pace, cramming each day with hope, laughter, noise, and bustle. Thus, happiness and human endeavor are sired by a coming to terms with decay and futility. This realization is the key to understanding the Great Lord of Decay and his worshippers." It fits perfectly, and given the attention NUrgle was given, it makes me wonder if it was intentional. You made some points and I am glad you got something out of it. I just have to wait to see what will be next now. (Of course Aramada and Blood Rage are in my sites for spending this spring so I should be happy soon.) Speaking of Ragnorok check out the Board Game section of the forums. Blood Rage would be up your alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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