Guest Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Other day, someone was telling me that Lords of War taken in a formation do not count as Lords of War for rules and abilities that specifically affect LoWs. This is untrue, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Please elaborate? What rules effect Lord of Wars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 All the escalation stuff (+1 to seize, warlord traits, etc...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTal Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think he is talking about multiple obelisks in the decurion and other formations. They are not 0-1 choices and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 If they're not pulling from a normal CAD, they're not Lords of War. Formations are a different beast all together. Lord of War is still their Battlefield Role, same as a Tactical Squad in a Formation is still a Troops Unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yeah, but does a Tactical Squad in a formation have Objective Secured or use a Troops slot? Battlefield Role is there, but not used in the formation. Objective secured isn't gained from being a troops slot, they gain that for bring a troops slot in certain detachment types. Those detachments have special rules which give them objective secured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think he is talking about multiple obelisks in the decurion and other formations. They are not 0-1 choices and what not. The 0-1 isn't a thing anymore. You can field multiple LoWs via multiple detachments. That's not the issue. It's organized events which limit LoWs to 0-1 and then players claiming that the formation bypasses the limit due to them not being LoWs. The Escalation rules too, as those are intended to limit LoWs. Lord of War is still their Battlefield Role, same as a Tactical Squad in a Formation is still a Troops Unit. West has it right, as far as I can find in actual rules. Even in an unbound detachment, their battlefield role should be retained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 While that's true, note that unless you are using the ITC FAQ, the +1 to Seize and bonus VP for damaging the Lord of War only apply if you are playing one of the missions from the Escalation book- they are not part of the Eternal War or Maelstrom of War missions presented in the BRB, as GW's own FAQ makes clear. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 While that's true, note that unless you are using the ITC FAQ, the +1 to Seize and bonus VP for damaging the Lord of War only apply if you are playing one of the missions from the Escalation book- they are not part of the Eternal War or Maelstrom of War missions presented in the BRB, as GW's own FAQ makes clear. Right, right. Although, as I said to LH, I only see events using ITC, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Well, in example, the "Ordo Anhililation" event at WOW has this little rule: Lords of War are allowed. But the Impending Doom (+1 to Seize the Initiative for a player facing a LoW who does not have one), and scenario specific bonuses may be in play. So, in this case, would a Lord of War still count as one while in a dataslate detachment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6nculve Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 LOW is a Battlefield Role, however if I use a Detachment that doesn't have a FOC or use Battlefield Roles, then the units don't have them. This includes Super-heavy Vehicles and Gargantuan Creatures. The escalation rules related to Super-heavy Vehicles and Gargantuan Creatures, and other rules like them, should have referenced Super-heavy Vehicles and Gargantuan Creatures, not LoW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 LOW is a Battlefield Role, however if I use a Detachment that doesn't have a FOC or use Battlefield Roles, then the units don't have them. This includes Super-heavy Vehicles and Gargantuan Creatures. Got a page reference for this? As I read it, page 119 of the BRB starts with this: However you choose your army, all units have a Battlefield Role, which is typically shown as a symbol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yeah, troops taken in a detachment are still troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6nculve Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 My bad, technically what I said isn't true. It's a little too broad.Formations- "Unless stated otherwise, each individual unit maintains its normal Battlefield Role when taken as part of a Formation."So units within formations normally keep their Battlefield Role.Battlefield Role- "Some publications introduce other types of Battlefield Roles, such as Imperial Knights, and will include all the rules you need to include them as part of your army."So Imperial Knights have their own Battlefield Role, which is not LoW.Forces of the Necrons- "Unlike the Detachment shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a Force Organization Chart whose slots are a combination of specific Formations and Army List Entries instead of Battlefield Roles."So Necron unit using the Decursion Detachment don't have Battlefield Roles, though I suppose you could consider Core, Command and Auxiliary the Battlefield Roles. Core, Command and Auxiliary are referred to as complusory and optional elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think LoW are LoW no matter what. Does a heavy support count for the maelstrom objectives if it's in a detachment? If the answer is yes then yes a LoW is a LoW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Forces of the Necrons- "Unlike the Detachment shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a Force Organization Chart whose slots are a combination of specific Formations and Army List Entries instead of Battlefield Roles." Nah, that's not what that actually means. It means that the requirements for the Detachment are listed by specific Unit rather than by Battlefield Role, not that those specific Units lose their Battlefield Role. For instance, a Transcendent C'Tan chosen as a Star-God choice in a Decurion is still a Heavy Support Unit, and would, for example, give up an extra VP in Big Guns Never Tire. But that slot doesn't have to be filled by a HS Unit, it could be an Elite or LoW if you went for one of the other Shards or a Tesseract Vault, for instance. It's just reflecting that that Detachment is chosen in different ways, rather than any given Slot being open to any given Unit with a certain Battlefield Role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 So Necron unit using the Decursion Detachment don't have Battlefield Roles, though I suppose you could consider Core, Command and Auxiliary the Battlefield Roles. Core, Command and Auxiliary are referred to as complusory and optional elements. Units in a Decurion detachment still have battlefield roles, they just aren't selected by battlefield role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6nculve Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think LoW are LoW no matter what. Does a heavy support count for the maelstrom objectives if it's in a detachment? If the answer is yes then yes a LoW is a LoW Battlefield Roles are defined. So no. I mean, you can call them by their Unit Type and just say only one Super-heavy, that is in your codex, is allowed for your league or tournament or just ban Super-heavies all together. Though, I believe, naming Battlefield Roles is a poor limitation cause it's not covering what you mean to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6nculve Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Nah, that's not what that actually means. It means that the requirements for the Detachment are listed by specific Unit rather than by Battlefield Role, not that those specific Units lose their Battlefield Role. For instance, a Transcendent C'Tan chosen as a Star-God choice in a Decurion is still a Heavy Support Unit, and would, for example, give up an extra VP in Big Guns Never Tire. But that slot doesn't have to be filled by a HS Unit, it could be an Elite or LoW if you went for one of the other Shards or a Tesseract Vault, for instance. It's just reflecting that that Detachment is chosen in different ways, rather than any given Slot being open to any given Unit with a certain Battlefield Role. It means what it says it means. It literally says that the Decursion Detachment has a combination of specific Formations and Army List Entries instead of Battlefield Roles. Are you going to wish away what Battlefield Roles says about Imperial Knights too? You're being silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Models in formations and unit list entries still have battlefield roles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6nculve Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Models in formations and unit list entries still have battlefield roles. Yes, though Imperial Knights have an 'Other' Battlefield Role, which means they are not LoW, while the Decursion Detachment specifically says it doesn't use Battlefield Roles. Formations- "Unless stated otherwise, each individual unit maintains its normal Battlefield Role when taken as part of a Formation." The Decursion Detachment states otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yes, though Imperial Knights have an 'Other' Battlefield Role, which means they are not LoW, while the Decursion Detachment specifically says it doesn't use Battlefield Roles. Formations- "Unless stated otherwise, each individual unit maintains its normal Battlefield Role when taken as part of a Formation." The Decursion Detachment states otherwise. No, DD states: Forces of the Necrons- "Unlike the Detachment shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a Force Organization Chart whose slots are a combination of specific Formations and Army List Entries instead of Battlefield Roles." Which just means that the formations look like this: Cryptek Thingy Spyder Unit of Wraiths Unit of Scarabs instead of Cryptek Thingy One Heavy Two Fast It does not say that the units don't have battlefield roles anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 No, it states that the Detachment doesn't specify them by Role. It lists specific Units which can fill various slots, instead of just listing a Battlefield Role and letting you take any Unit with the appropriate Faction and Battlefield Role there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6nculve Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Sure, if that's how you want to read it. I'll agree to disagree. Imperial Knights are still not LoW, which means the orginal point still stands. Limiting LoW is a poor limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Sure, if that's how you want to read it. I'll agree to disagree. Imperial Knights are still not LoW, which means the orginal point still stands. Limiting LoW is a poor limitation. Imperial Knights have never been LoW that I am aware of (except for the Forgeworld ones that specifically got that slot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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