abstract Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I have designed a metal base for warhammer 40k models, the original design was for 25mm, and a month later Games Workshop announced models with 32mm over the 25mm ones. I am more into the painting side of the hobby as to playing games, though when I get enough of my models painted I would like to start playing some matches. So a few questions: Q: Which do you prefer 25mm or 32mm? I have read the discussions/debates on other forums (dakka, etc..) and most express "play with what you like". Q: So in our area, do you think the majority of players would be upset if I used 32mm bases for my models that normally (or originally came with) used 25mm bases? These bases would be machined and not casted, and to keep costs down I would need do a run of at least 1000 bases. Personally between my marines and orks, I would only need about 300-350 bases. Q: Would anyone be interested in buying some of the excess bases? At 1000, the bases come out to around $1.95 /each. Price goes down on larger orders/runs. To mount them, i have used rare earth magnets (on my prototypes) in the feet of my models. old 25mm prototype Material: 12L14 MILD STEEL The one on the left is one of the prototypes, the one on the right was one of the stages of the machining process. I can take more picts of the latest prototypes I have if needed and post them also, with models, etc.. for comparison if anyone would like. I'm currently at work and the above picture was all I had readily available to embed in this post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Love the steel bases. At ~$2 each, they are very spendy for 40k armies. I would need photos of them with models attached. I am also concerned that the design will result in models which do not stay on their bases very well. Last, I do have some concern regarding old metal models designed for slotted bases and how they would attach to these bases. Pinning through steel is quite time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's a cool idea but that's reaaaally spendy for a base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Pax: I am going to the Blazer's game tonight so I won't be able to post more picts today but perhaps on the morrow. Pretre: Less expensive then most resin bases, see below. Q: What would be an acceptable price per base? That was a guesstimate quote, I had originally got quotes for 25mm and 40mm bases, so i basically did an average between the two to come up with a quote for the 32mm, most of the cost comes from machine set up and the material. But if there is enough interest in them, I will go back for another/more accurate quote. I originally started with 2 x AoBR box sets, which had the slotted bases and corresponding models. I just cut off the "slot" from the bottom of the models. As for "pinning" (attaching to the bases) I experimented with rare earth magnets, which hold the model to the base really well. I only have a few prototypes at the moment, my buddy has a CNC machine but it is not cost effective for him to crank them out for me, takes him about 15-20 minutes per base. So i went to a local machine shop for quotes. I could outsource them to asia for production (probably way cheaper in price) but honestly I like to support local/american business when ever possible. I can also come by WOW on a Wednesday (if that is still the popular wh40k game night) to let those interested in the bases gets some hands on time with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 If it's a permanent base, wouldn't you just glue it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't have anything against the concept, but aside from weight (which you could also get by attaching a washer or drilling in some lead sinkers) what advantage would this have over plastic or resin bases? Resin in particular will be cheaper ($1-2 per base, even just buying them straight up and not casting anything) and can be gotten in a wide variety of styles to add detail and uniqueness to an army, while these... don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Pretre: You could glue them if you wanted, I'm not experienced or knowledgable in all the varieties of basing models, I have seen people (online videos) glue them, use paper clips with holes drilled through the base then inserted an and bent (for easy removal if you wanted to strip the models and repaint them). Abuse: No advantage really, just cool factor mainly :) They have a recessed top to allow for whatever basing material you would like. Originally I liked the War Machine / Hordes bases with the rounded lipped bases, but they came in 30mm, etc.. and not 25mm so I looked into using wood (black walnut), I used a lathe to turn out a few but couldn't get them all to be consistent (due to experience with the lathe). I talked with my buddy who has a CNC machine (and other tools) if he had any recommendation, tips or tricks and he suggested using metal, then he worked up some prototypes for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 If it's a permanent base, wouldn't you just glue it? Not going to stay. Super glue doesn't keep things attached to steel surfaces very well. It'll glue, but bumping will send the model flying off the base. A textured base, or one with pre-drilled holes could negate some of these problems, but it's yet another cost for the base design. I originally started with 2 x AoBR box sets, which had the slotted bases and corresponding models. I just cut off the "slot" from the bottom of the models. As for "pinning" (attaching to the bases) I experimented with rare earth magnets, which hold the model to the base really well. Yeah, I considered that. I've even done it a few times. Two main issues. Magnet and drills further increase the cost of these bases. Shouldn't be an issue with plastic models, but my old RT metal models lose value if I cut sections off or drill holes for magnets, and I'm not sure how effective the magnets will be with heavier models. Q: What would be an acceptable price per base? As for cost, $2 each is reasonable, provided they are perfect. I haven't seen perfection yet, but you are certainly on the right path. That said at $2 per base, I'd only buy these for unbalanced models, as these metal bases represent a 50% increase in cost of marines ($40 for 10, plus $20 for 10 bases). If you can find a way to drive the cost down to less than a dollar, I think you'll have people willing to base their entire army with them. On a side note, don't compare these to resin bases as those have the selling point of being pre-textured, while these bases would still require flock/texture in order to be presentable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Pretre: You could glue them if you wanted, I'm not experienced or knowledgable in all the varieties of basing models, I have seen people (online videos) glue them, use paper clips with holes drilled through the base then inserted an and bent (for easy removal if you wanted to strip the models and repaint them).. Have you experimented with drilling through steel? It consumes drill bits much faster, especially for the scale of models (1/16" drill bits and smaller). It is also quite time consuming, as most model pinning is done by hand, not with power tools. I have worked with steel and it really isn't a very fun medium with regards to small scale model projects. On a side note, have you looked into a steel punch to make the bases, rather than machining them? Should be much cheaper. Could also get round stock and a bandsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Paxmiles: SPM (http://machiningcompany.com) is the place I got the quotes from, they said they would actually use a "screw machine" not sure if that is the same as a punch machine or not. I can't recall off hand the largest diameter the "screw machine" takes, I do know the 40mm bases are to large for a screw machine and would actually need to be machined. So for those I was actually hoping to persuade my buddy into making 20-30 of them for me (i have 10 terminators, and i think a few orks also use the 40mm base, like the boss/hq orks, and a few extras incase I obtain more models that require that base size). Also Paxmiles: Thank you for the feedback and other things to take into consideration, if you have anymore suggestions, advice, etc.. please feel free to post them ;) I would like to get the price down as much as possible ;) Which is why I made this post, the larger the order the cheaper each base becomes. Materials also determine the price, I am open to suggestions, etc.. Not looking to make a profit off this, just wanted to see if anyone was interested in going in on this to bring the cost down. the $1.95 was a rough guesstimate. It would be awesome to place an order for 1000+ and have the cost come out to $1.25 - $1.50 per base. A friend of mine also suggested maybe brass, or bronze, or some other "softer" metal that is cheaper in cost. But I like the steel look personally. I saw these: Beveled Edge Bases: 32mm Hollow Blanks Which is the style of base that I like, in the 32mm size. Those are $1.50 /each which is why I looked at the metal bases again as an option and figured to post on this forum for feedback, suggestions, interest, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 As someone who professionally organizes a good bit of overseas manufacturing for items/components not terribly different than this, look into having them stamped overseas rather than turned from round stock like these. Shallower bowl potential (raised perimeter rib and sloped edge using thinner sheet steel) without multiple processes, etc. but a set of dies and serious production numbers will knock that unit cost down to < $0.25 compared to the operator time of a manual lathe even in China. You'd want to get production numbers up to a point that an overseas factory (or possibly a friendly domestic) would be interested, and tooling would be an up-front cost, but if your volume starts climbing it really starts making sense. As far as mounting a model to them, Pax is very correct to bring up drilling. In addition to the increased bit-wear compared to resin/plastic, the time and force involved in drilling steel is a very serious concern. In addition to having them stamped from sheet steel using contoured dies I'd also include some holes (maybe 4 is enough) in the stamped pattern to save yourself some time and just plan on covering them with basing material if not in use and otherwise use the bent wire method you mentioned previously. All that said, I would also suggest you look into making your own resin molds. Cost per base was in the $0.15-0.25 range, depending on volume, at retail materials prices last time I looked into it myself. The kits to get started making your own molds start in the $30-60 range (amazon) and there are oodles of online tutorials about how to do so. Obviously this is also personally labor intensive, but an order of magnitude cheaper per unit than those steel prices which will make chances of external interest that much more likely. Hardest part using resin (aside from practice and streamlining your process) is having a means to stand out from the multitudes of other resin base companies out there. There are already some places making bases similar to what you're showing, it may be a cheaper alternative overall to just buy them retail instead if you can find that style somewhere. An interesting idea though, I hope it works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Thanks Bosco for the feedback and information :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think your linked site is for too high quality parts, and that's why the cost is so high. Doing a quick search on google for basic metal washers with a 28mm outer diameter resulted in these: http://kmac-distribution.com/washers/round-hole/od/28mm.htm#.VRoCzuGTLgY EDIT Can't seem to get the table to display right, but link works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Paxmiles: SPM (http://machiningcompany.com) is the place I got the quotes from, they said they would actually use a "screw machine" not sure if that is the same as a punch machine or not. I can't recall off hand the largest diameter the "screw machine" takes, I do know the 40mm bases are to large for a screw machine and would actually need to be machined. So for those I was actually hoping to persuade my buddy into making 20-30 of them for me (i have 10 terminators, and i think a few orks also use the 40mm base, like the boss/hq orks, and a few extras incase I obtain more models that require that base size). Based on the photos, "screw machine" is likely a small scale lathe designed for mass production of identical parts (like screws). Far too much precision and cost to create something where exacts don't really matter much. Yeah, it needs to be about 28mm rounds, but looks like your getting a machine that is better than you need. In all honesty, there is probably already a product that is the perfect metal base, but is called something obscure, like a flat 28mm end cap...or something. If you can figure out if there is already a mass produced version, re-marketing it would be the best option. Very likely, issue with cost is that the machine shop thinks the part needs to be more impressive than you need it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have RFQ from a few other shops in the USA, for the 32mm base. I will update this topic when I get more information. My goal is to get them made for under 1.50 per base. This is an old pict of the 25mm metal base: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Looking forward to more updates - at worst, it's a very interesting project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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