von hammer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Wow! I saw one big one changing but not both big ones. Check them out, https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/03/30/itc-2015-season-policy-guideline-poll-results/ Now, we will see how each tourney plays them or if they change the format for themselves. Check them out, would love to hear everyone's thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Wow. No CTA or ranged D? Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von hammer Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Right?!? I kinda saw the no CtA but I totally didn't see the no ranged D. Craziness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 How would you like to see Come the Apocalypse Allies handled for the ITC 2015 season?This was probably the most contentious issue and the one that will make the most waves. However, it is important to address these issues fairly. I have been quite vocal about my position on this topic: I do not like Come the Apocalypse Allies at all, it really kills the immersion of the game for me. Some of the combos aren’t so bad, such as Knight in a Chaos army for example, or Astra Militarum with Nids to make a Genestealer Cult. However, for every 1 cool combo you see like that on the table, we get many more where it is 3 Flyrants slapped in an Eldar list, or something similar. It turns out, most of the gamers in the ITC community also dislike CtA allies. I also compiled the data in a different way, to show general attitudes towards CtA allies as of the 5 questions, 3 of them were generally negative towards CtA allies. When you view the data this way, it becomes even more clear that most gamers do not enjoy CtA allies in their events. While I truly do empathize with those who have modeled up cool armies that utilize CtA allies, I have to say on a personal level I am pleased with the result of this poll. Will CtA be completely gone from all ITC events this season? No, we will have certain formats at big events like the LVO, where these will be good to go for those who really want to use an army they modeled up. You will not be seeing them in the 40k Championships format events this season, though. Wow, I completely disagree with his reading of the results. He is way too biased towards his own opinion. I see three columns of people saying "CtA is fine, let's restrict it in this way, for the sake of ______." So, as I read the votes, CtA should be allowed, with restrictions in place. I support Unbound, and so I take supporting Unbound as supporting CtA, although I personally have no opinion on CtA. How many detachments do you want to see in the ITC for the 2015 season?Well, this one was ultra close! It came down to just 7 votes, less than 1% of all the voters! However, in the end, the vote for keeping things as they are won out narrowly. 2 Detachments is the name of the game for this season as it was last season. I was actually really surprised how many people voted for a single Detachment, I didn’t think there’d be more than a handful of them. But, when we exlcude it from the poll, I always get emails asking why it wasn’t an option so I put it back in. Turns out, quite a few people prefer to play 40k in “classic mode.” Also, I honestly didn’t expect 172 people to vote for unlimited Detachments as for me personally, I feel that that is too chaotic. But again, this goes to show that different gamers want different things. I read this one as 3 Detachments being what the community voted. Am I mistaken? More people voted for 3+ than voted for 2. More people voted for two than voted for 4+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Remember there's three kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies and statistics. ;) There are a couple ways you could look at this. More people wanted 3 plus than 2 or less. True More people wanted 2 than any other number. Also true Personally, I think he made the right choice. The largest category was 2 detachments. Guessing about what people would have voted if the categories were different, how they would have voted with multiple votes each, wondering how the results would have changed if they voted for the option they liked least or trying to extrapolate anything not specifically laid out in the poll is a losing game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 And this is one of the basic problems with "pick one from a field of more than two" voting. There are all kinds of possible interpretations when there's overlap between the categories. Over on the site, I recommended that in the future they go with Approval Voting or Ranked Voting if they can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the type of detachment matters more than the number of detachments. Unlimited allied detachments would not be an issue, I don't think. Multiple CADs and certain other multiple detachments could create issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 :| If Reece keeps pushing things this direction, sooner or later he's gonna end up like INAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Like the inat? Great inat was one of the best things to happen to 40k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 :| If Reece keeps pushing things this direction, sooner or later he's gonna end up like INAT. Well, I think the important distinction is that this is a democracy rather than an oligarchy like INAT. Of course, that runs into all of the problems with trying to run a direct democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Listen, strange men sittin' at desks distributin' polls is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some statistical interpretation ceremony. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Can I like that five times? I agree with WR though, if he is going to do this, he needs to make things much more clear. i.e. Do you want CTA allies? Yes/No Do you want to keep the 2 detachment system? Yes/No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah, I disagree with so much of this. The 2 detachment thing is clearly not what people wanted, and the idea that you can't send out a quick one question poll to clarify that is nonsense, since the first poll was less than a week from publishing to results. I also think the "no repeat formations" thing doesn't work in Decurion style army books. It's basically turning those books into quasi highlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The 2 detachment thing is clearly not what people wanted, I don't think that is clear. I think it is clear that this isn't the best way to figure that out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 How is it not clear? The number of people wanting 2 or Less detachments is less than 350. The number of people wanting more than 2 detachments is pushing 500. His stance that "More people want 2 detachments" is absolute Fox News. The Majority WANT the 2 detachment cap removed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 How is it not clear? The number of people wanting 2 or Less detachments is less than 350. The number of people wanting more than 2 detachments is pushing 500. His stance that "More people want 2 detachments" is absolute Fox News. The Majority WANT the 2 detachment cap removed. No. The Majority want 2 detachments. A smaller group wants 3 and another group wants unlimited. You have no way of knowing if the people who wanted unlimited also want 3. For all we know, the people who wanted unlimited are all or nothing. The poll should have been more explicit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The best way to do these type of questions is have 4 answers and give a points value to each Like A) one detachment. 0 points B) 2 detachments 1 point C) three detachments 2 points D) unlimited. 3points This gives more answers then the one answer or the yes no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 If you don't like the rules. Don't go the events. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think he should have done a single question with follow-up: Do you want to keep the two detachment system as is? Yes/No. That would have been as clear as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 No it wouldn't make it clear. Because people who want 3,3+, and 1 would all vote no. They sent out a poll and changed things that were in a clear majority and things that were not clear on the direction. They kept the same. Seems pretty straight forward, just need them to update the lords of war for demonkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 No it wouldn't make it clear. Because people who want 3,3+, and 1 would all vote no. They sent out a poll and changed things that were in a clear majority and things that were not clear on the direction. They kept the same. Seems pretty straight forward, just need them to update the lords of war for demonkin. You'll note 'with a followup' Second question: Would you be in favor of unlimited detachments with 0-1 for any given type? Yes/No etc, so on. Get a clear leader using multiple yes/no questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The best way to do these type of questions is have 4 answers and give a points value to each Like A) one detachment. 0 points B) 2 detachments 1 point C) three detachments 2 points D) unlimited. 3points This gives more answers then the one answer or the yes no question. This is what I was talking about with Ranked Voting. It's just presented a little differently, but it works out the same. It's a pretty good system for handling multiple, not entirely exclusive options, but I think Approval Voting might actually be even better in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Reason wins the day... who would have thunk it with gamers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Like the inat? Great inat was one of the best things to happen to 40k. Yeah, that's why INAT is so common and popular and widely used that- Oh, wait, what's that? Lots of people hated it and it rolled into a ditch and died because they made a bunch of arbitrary decisions and called them FAQs? And now 90% of players don't even remember what INAT was? I see. That's a very different thing. If you don't like the rules. Don't go the events. If you don't like the discussion we're having, don't post to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I wonder how the 3 detachment voters would have voted if the options were "2 detachment" and "unlimited detachment". My gut says 2 would get the majority but I'm curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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