Guest Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 True. I haven't seen people play those yet. I don't think they will until GCs become common. Fact of the matter is that with BS3, the breachers aren't really a viable option with the torsion cannons. It's just a matter of 1/2 hitting the target and still doing less average damage to most targets over the longer range, more shots heavy arc rifle. It's one of those things that isn't viable yet, but will be at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Note also that the Void Shields are separate things, not one Shield with multiple "HP", so each Torsion hit is still only dropping one of them, regardless of what you roll on the d3. On average, you need 1200 Points worth of Breachers firing Torsion Cannon at the thing to drop all three Void Shields. Pretty poor return on investment considering you can do the same thing with about 250 Points worth of WolfGuard/SternGuard with Combi-Weapons, or 195 Points worth of Missilesides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Note also that the Void Shields are separate things, not one Shield with multiple "HP", so each Torsion hit is still only dropping one of them, regardless of what you roll on the d3. Those would do fine against the void shields (S8), even if they can only damage one shield per shot. Nobody reads my posts....yet they always respond to them... I was talking about how the admech don't have to just use haywire weapons to face void shields and then we got side tracked on a weapon that wouldn't be as impaired, even if not the ideal solution. But seriously, 1200pts? 24 breachers at 50pts each. 1 shot each for 24 breachers. 12 hits at bs3. 6 glances or pens with S8 shooting. Void shields don't get saves. Perhaps you mean 600pts? The torsion effect has no bearing on void shields, which don't have HP and simply collapse with any glance or pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I agree it's a shoddy return. The point would be to punch out the void shields so you could decimate the enemy with actual haywire weapons (or something else). I totally agree that the torsion weapons are not ideal weapons against void shields, they are just more practical than mass haywire weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah, I think I slipped in an extra factor of two. But still, seriously, tell me what CM or Skitarii have that's actually efficient at taking down Void Shields, because I'm not seeing it. Not just things that can theoretically do it if you roll a lot of 6s, but things that can get a decent RoI with average luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Mostly, I think it's just volume of S6. They seem to have a lot of it. Robots have S6 as well, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I meant the lumen cannons or whatever. They're s6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah, I think I slipped in an extra factor of two. But still, seriously, tell me what CM or Skitarii have that's actually efficient at taking down Void Shields, because I'm not seeing it. Not just things that can theoretically do it if you roll a lot of 6s, but things that can get a decent RoI with average luck. Mostly, it's the skitarii. They've got those dirt cheap cognis Autocannons and Lascannons in that heavy slot walker. The Neutron laser would work for this too. The plasma weapons, throughout the two books, aren't a half bad for void shields either. The mentioned Torsion weapons. If inside the middle range band, the dunecrawler Eradication Beamer would work too. That transuranic arquebus really only has to roll slightly above average to glance/pen a void shield too. And then, you could just hope for 6s with your heavy phosphor weapons. Not a great use, but you really don't have much to shoot at if the void shields are still up. Dunno, seems like most of the units with ranged weapons have ranged options that would work here. The melee units could too, but that doesn't really matter, as once their in melee, the void shield really doesn't do anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 So here's the 'Eben Goes to Hell' list: Sororitas Assassination Force (Skyhammer Annihilation Force) 10 Retributors (Devs) with 4 Multi-Meltas and Cherub in Drop Pod - 220 10 Retributors (Devs) with 4 Multi-Meltas and Cherub in Drop Pod - 220 10 Seraphim (Assault Sq) with 2 Double Hand Flamers (2 Flamers) and MB - 185 10 Seraphim (Assault Sq) with 2 Double Hand Flamers (2 Flamers) and MB - 185 Space Wolf CAD WGBL with Jump Pack, PF/SS - 105 WGBL with Jump Pack, WC/SS - 100 5 GH with Melta and Pack Leader with Combi in Drop Pod- 125 5 GH with Plasma and Pack Leader with Combi in Drop Pod- 138 5 BC with PL and Flamer in Drop Pod - 110 5 BC with PL and Flamer in Drop Pod - 110 1500 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Mwahahaha! I love it. Even tho I would have to play against it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 On the AdMech vs. Void Shields thing: Kastelans spamming S6 is really expensive. 320 points worth of Kastelans, rocking the "shoot twice" protocol, still only drop 1-2 Void Shields. Ballistarii are pretty good, tho, only takes ~275 Points worth of them to drop all three Shields (assuming you're cranking up their BS with an Imperative), and they can do it without getting up close like the Drop Units have to. Snipers come in around 300 Points to drop three Shields, not great, but not terrible. Huh. Even Plasma actually works out alright, given their ridiculous BS buffs. If you've got Interceptor, go for the Plasma Vanguard, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 On the AdMech vs. Void Shields thing: Kastelans spamming S6 is really expensive. 320 points worth of Kastelans, rocking the "shoot twice" protocol, still only drop 1-2 Void Shields. Ballistarii are pretty good, tho, only takes ~275 Points worth of them to drop all three Shields (assuming you're cranking up their BS with an Imperative), and they can do it without getting up close like the Drop Units have to. Snipers come in around 300 Points to drop three Shields, not great, but not terrible. Huh. Even Plasma actually works out alright, given their ridiculous BS buffs. If you've got Interceptor, go for the Plasma Vanguard, I guess. I did say that the robot approach wasn't a great use. It's more a, "I've gotta get those shields down so my haywires can do their thing, may as well use these robots which aren't contributing as much as I think the haywire will." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Mwahahaha! I love it. Even tho I would have to play against it ;) I'm still trying to figure out how to fit it in. List-wise, I want the Annihilation Force to ally with SOB. It just seems better (unless I get a lot more drop pods). Model-wise, I definitely want to use it with my SW so I can use SOB models. Oh well, I'll bang out a list Monday and then start working on getting it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Also, I think Coteaz is going to start getting REALLY important again. He's one of the only imperial defenses against the SAF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 How about: Skyhammer Annihilation Force (Space Wolves using SM) 10 Devs with 4 MM and Cherub in Drop Pod- 220 10 Devs with 4 MM and Cherub in Drop Pod- 220 10 Assault Squad with 2 Flamers and MB on Sgt - 185 10 Assault Squad with 2 Flamers and MB on Sgt - 185 Allied Detachment Celestine - 135 5 BSS in Repressor with F/HF (Reserved) - 150 Retributors with 4 HF - 100 Dominions with 4 Meltas - 105 CotGW Detachment WGBL with PF/SS and Jump Pack - 105 Servitor (Reserved) Servitor (Reserved) Drop Pod (Rets) Drop Pod (Doms) 1495 I'm kind of limited until I pick up more pods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Oooh, trading for another pod as we speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 That brings me to magic number 5, which is exponentially better than 4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 5 is most you need, and do you want to really drop 4 mm? Why not 2 mm 2 ml or las? Can combat squad and keep long range back? I always found 2 mm did enough for me, but if facing a lot of super heavies I can see 4 mm being important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 5 is most you need, and do you want to really drop 4 mm? Why not 2 mm 2 ml or las? Can combat squad and keep long range back? I always found 2 mm did enough for me, but if facing a lot of super heavies I can see 4 mm being important. Well, you want the 4 MM because they are cheap and super good at under 24". You also want both combat squads with the pod so you can 'pin' 2 units per dev squad. You fire 4 MM at something you want dead, if it survives it is 'pinned' and then 5 Bolters at something you want 'pinned'. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Good point though I might still split but could decide after looking at my opponents list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 5 is most you need, That's what you say. I've got 11 already, and still want more. Stupid multiple MEq Armies ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 That's what you say. I've got 11 already, and still want more. Stupid multiple MEq Armies ;) Yeah, I need MOAR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Good point though I might still split but could decide after looking at my opponents list. That's the great thing! You can split or not. You can split 2 MM at each target, you can go 4 at one, you can blob up. Oh man, it's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Okay, new lists with no character delivery: SOB Strike Force (Counts as SAF) 10 Devs with 4 MM, Cherub in Drop Pod - 220 10 Devs with 4 MM, Cherub in Drop Pod - 220 10 Assault with 2 Flamers, MB - 185 10 Assault with 2 Flamers, MB - 185 WGBL on TWM, with WC/SS - 135 3 TWC with Pack Leader WC/SS, SS/CCW Iron Priest on TW 5 GH with Pack Leader (combi) and Melta in Drop Pod 5 GH with Pack Leader (Combi) and Plasma, 2 CCW in Drop Pod Deploy the TW Blob in cover or behind LOS Blockers. Drop 1 GH pod and SAF turn 1. Profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Or, full reserve: SOB Strike Force (Counts as SAF) 10 Devs with 4 MM in Drop Pod - 215 10 Devs with 4 MM in Drop Pod - 215 5 Assault with Flamer, MB - 95 10 Assault with 2 Flamers, MB - 185 CAD WGBL - WC/SS - 85 10 GH with Pack Leader (Combi), Melta x2, 7 CCW in Drop Pod - 229 10 GH with Pack Leader (Combi), Melta x2, 9 CCW in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 243 9 GH with Pack Leader (Combi), Plasma, 8 CCW, Wolf Standard in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 232 Same idea, but with drop pods instead. 2 GH pods first turn (including the WGBL pod) and the SAF. Or Ulrik for PE Goodness SOB Strike Force (Counts as SAF) 10 Devs with 4 MM, Cherub in Drop Pod - 220 10 Devs with 4 MM, Cherub in Drop Pod - 220 5 Assault with Flamer, MB - 95 10 Assault with 2 Flamers, MB - 185 CAD Ulrik - 145 6 GH with Pack Leader (Combi), Melta in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 159 10 GH with Pack Leader (Combi), Melta x2, 9 CCW in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 243 9 GH with Pack Leader (Combi), Plasma, 8 CCW, Wolf Standard in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 232 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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