pretre Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hrm...I thought finecast was done...I'm surprised to see new models that are finecast. That's what I said in response to that guy. I thought Necrons had a new model or two in Finecast. Were they the single pose injection plastic? Plastic Clams in that list. Finecast 50$ box though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hrm...I thought finecast was done...I'm surprised to see new models that are finecast. Shining spears already have a finecast upgrade pack. Would not surprise me if they re-boxed it with the bikes as a single kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Pax is probably right. This is most likely a repack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I still maintain that chaoas daemon fmc is the only list that truly riles my ire. Even wave spam just gave me a puzzle to solve. Tough lists abound and forge wotld shenanigans make things somewhat fraught with moments of consternation. But as codexs go, thats the only thing I truly dislike playing actively is those Daemon FMC lists. I can lose and not whimper too much against triple dreadknight and wave spam is fine for most of my lists to go against. White Scars are super beefy. But losing to any of those doesnt leave me feeling frustrated days later or going on forums to complain. Daemon FMC'S? ive ben guilty of whining about them. Not proud of it but it is what it is. So im sure the Eldar will be fine. Heres to 18" serpent shields! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 *shrug* If all the dexes are on par with, say Orks, then they'd all be viable, no? Right now, the powerful dexes all seem to be 6th edition dexes. Yes, assuming by some miracle that every single codex was updated at the same time and to the same power level. However, I would still argue that the Ork codex wasn't well designed because it, in many ways, lacks flavor or interest compared to the Necron one. That's true of all of the 7E books to varying degrees- most of the interesting fluff has been cut in favor of more big glossy pictures of models they want you to buy and unique special abilities have been replaced by USRs. Orks are better than, say, BA or SW in that regard but I would still rank them well below Necrons. I still maintain that chaoas daemon fmc is the only list that truly riles my ire. Even wave spam just gave me a puzzle to solve. I find it hilarious that the strongest unit in the game is "just a puzzle to solve" but a mediocre army that suffers heavily going second and has major matchup issues is apparently enough to enrage you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Yes, assuming by some miracle that every single codex was updated at the same time and to the same power level. However, I would still argue that the Ork codex wasn't well designed because it, in many ways, lacks flavor or interest compared to the Necron one. That's true of all of the 7E books to varying degrees- most of the interesting fluff has been cut in favor of more big glossy pictures of models they want you to buy and unique special abilities have been replaced by USRs. Orks are better than, say, BA or SW in that regard but I would still rank them well below Necrons. If you're arguing about flavor and such, I can't argue about that too much. I will say that the supplements and such added enough with formations to add flavor. If we're talking about power level, I really think that most of the 7th edition dexes rank up pretty well with each other. Necrons being about the only one that appears to be standing out, but that's also in context of having a ton of formations already within the codex. Anyway, I agree that GW and balance are basically just a question of blind luck, so I'm not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I find it hilarious that the strongest unit in the game is "just a puzzle to solve" but a mediocre army that suffers heavily going second and has major matchup issues is apparently enough to enrage you. Hilarious? You don't know me that well, I see! I view the entire game as one fantastically interesting puzzle to solve, so it rarely occurs to me to hate on lists and codex's and the like. I am more about the possibilities at all times. Having said that, we're all human and the Flying Deamon Circus just happens to be one that gets my goat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I view the entire game as one fantastically interesting puzzle to solve I view it as a game.......With toys....... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 What changes could a nerfed serpent shield bring to the game? More light transports? Viability of vehicles/units relying on cover saves? Nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 What changes could a nerfed serpent shield bring to the game? More light transports? Viability of vehicles/units relying on cover saves? Nothing? It brings Nids up significantly, because they rely heavily on Cover/Shrouded to protect a bunch of their Units. I'd also guess light Skimmers in particular (and specifically the Nightshroud) would become more viable, since Jink is a pretty big thing for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I view it as a game.......With toys....... The toys part IS cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 What changes could a nerfed serpent shield bring to the game? More light transports? Viability of vehicles/units relying on cover saves? Nothing? The viability of units that rely on cover to survive drastically improves I would say. Light transports...probably? We'll have to see how it all plays out, but I think those two are big. Then again, they might break something else to also screw with cover. Who knows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I wonder if this is just an expansion. Remember the old Craftworlds expansion book? It didnt replace the main one but it offered the Court of the Young King and all the other cool Craftworld specific stuff? I wonder if it could be like that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 If we're talking about power level, I really think that most of the 7th edition dexes rank up pretty well with each other. Necrons being about the only one that appears to be standing out, but that's also in context of having a ton of formations already within the codex. I think GK and DE probably a step or two lower than BA and SW- both of the former rely heavily on 6E books (SM and Eld respectively) to shore up their weaknesses, otherwise the books are incredibly one-dimensional. BA and SW at least have more options and can stand on their own against the other 7E books, even if they are generally fairly lackluster in a lot of ways and seem to be designed on the assumption that the game is still somewhere back in 5th Edition. Orks at least have a lot of good units available to them and their formations solve many of their main problems (unlike the BA/SW ones, which are mostly just very awkward or useless.) Necrons have a strong unique detachment, decent-to-good formations, and good base units on almost every front as well as good internal synergy, which in my mind makes them easily the best-written codex to date. Even considering their balance issues, I think the 6e books are almost universally more fun than the 7E ones. I like having units that do interesting things and lots of options for good units to use, and that is much more true of the 6E books than the 7E books. Space Wolves, to pick an example, have... Thunderwolves, Stormwolves, and... er... I guess you're required to take a troop unit of some kind? Not exactly an exciting and diverse codex for the most part, especially compared to IG, SM, and other codices of the previous edition. I view the entire game as one fantastically interesting puzzle to solve, so it rarely occurs to me to hate on lists and codex's and the like. Not all puzzles are equally fun to solve. Tic-tac-toe, for example, is also a puzzle to solve, but it's so trivially easy that there's no interest to it- similarly, finding every prime number less than one billion is also a puzzle, but not in any way a fun one for most people. Wave Serpents, from a competitive perspective, mirror those- for an Eldar player they are a trivially simple decision and from the opponent's perspective they are often an unfun slog. They're poorly balanced and are a perfect example of GW's lack of care in game design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Not all puzzles are equally fun to solve. Tic-tac-toe, for example, is also a puzzle to solve, but it's so trivially easy that there's no interest to it- similarly, finding every prime number less than one billion is also a puzzle, but not in any way a fun one for most people. Wave Serpents, from a competitive perspective, mirror those- for an Eldar player they are a trivially simple decision and from the opponent's perspective they are often an unfun slog. They're poorly balanced and are a perfect example of GW's lack of care in game design. Erm... What in the... I think Wave spam must be to you what Chaos Daemon Flying Circus's are to me then. We haven't apparently had the same experience. I'm fine with that. Now we'll see what they do about it. The range is the only thing i objected to and only that one weapon system out of the whole codex was a problem so if they fix the range I won't really care about the rest too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Except wave spam is objectively better than FMC and pretty much anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Then why have I defeated it so regularly? Theres nothing objective about what youve said. But then, it wont matter in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Then why have I defeated it so regularly? Theres nothing objective about what youve said. But then, it wont matter in a few days. Because of subjective factors, like your playstyle and list building style being better suited to counter one than the other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 If you say so. As I said. It will be academic in a few days potentially Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Even considering their balance issues, I think the 6e books are almost universally more fun than the 7E ones. I like having units that do interesting things and lots of options for good units to use, and that is much more true of the 6E books than the 7E books. Space Wolves, to pick an example, have... Thunderwolves, Stormwolves, and... er... I guess you're required to take a troop unit of some kind? Not exactly an exciting and diverse codex for the most part, especially compared to IG, SM, and other codices of the previous edition. I disagree that the 7th edition codexes aren't interesting, beyond the fact that the ones you're describing as boring are marine dexes, which, I agree, are boring in general. I *do* agree that, at least for Tau, Eldar, and Space Marines, the 6th edition codexes had decent internal balance and were pretty well endowed with good options, especially the Tau and Eldar dexes. Even if you remove some of the best options from either codex, one could easily make a serviceable (read: decently competitive) list from all the second-tier units. That's pretty cool, and RARELY achieved by GW. I also think you're discounting the craptastic 6th edition codexes of DA and CSM and the at least uneven Daemon dex. In general, the 6th ed codexes range from either awful (DA/CSM) to REALLY powerful (Eldar/Tau) with only a couple in between dexes. Anyway, this is almost purely a question of taste however, so I'll drop it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I really don't get the complaints about the SW Dex. All it really lost from the previous version was Mark of the Wulfen, and the Wolf Standards, and it gained a cool flyer and a bunch of other stuff became viable, instead of just being a matter of spamming GH and LF. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Then why have I defeated it so regularly? Theres nothing objective about what youve said. But then, it wont matter in a few days. Because maybe the people in your sandbox aren't good Eldar players? At any rate, local players not being able to handle their Serpents isn't really all that meaningful. Having had 2 years of large event experience pointing to Serpent Spam being a strong tournament list, and no one outside of Nanavati having any real success with a Daemon list would seem to point to an, overall, different conclusion than your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crono Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Except wave spam is objectively better than FMC and pretty much anything else. Nope, not in the case deamon flying circus... of course I am assuming the daemon player is solid. In that case I would say, eldar probably have the best fighting chance against the list. After that Nids, if there are no detachment limits... Daemons flying circus, minus some bad luck can deny most elements of the game, except against lists that are equally as fast. There was a reason why, at Adepticon, the final round of the individual was basically predetermined with the daemon player winning for the third straight time in a row, with the same basic principal for all 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Nope, not in the case deamon flying circus... of course I am assuming the daemon player is solid. In that case I would say, eldar probably have the best fighting chance against the list. After that Nids, if there are no detachment limits... Daemons flying circus, minus some bad luck can deny most elements of the game, except against lists that are equally as fast. There was a reason why, at Adepticon, the final round of the individual was basically predetermined with the daemon player winning for the third straight time in a row, with the same basic principal for all 3 years. How did the next best Daemon Flying Circus place, tho? How well does it do when not helmed by Nick Nanavati? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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