generalripphook Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 How does the knights invulnerable save work against barrage weapons? Do they have to declare their top armor being protected by the save? It it whichever side the blast's hole is nearest to? Is it which side the firing unit is on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't think I've ever seen a convincing RAW answer to this one. I've seen people house rule it as all three that you mentioned, plus ruling that they just don't get the save at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 FYI, barrage weapons always hit side armor, there is no "top" armor. I've only ever played it that they just don't get the shield, the rationale being that if you declare right side, then the hit can be on the left side or vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Well I realize that it hits the side armor of the knight. I was just wondering if that was even an option to declare the shield is protecting above you. Sounds like barrage is a good way to kill knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I finished one off at OFCC with a Griffon! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I randomly remember some faq saying they don't get it... My rational was the barrage hits both sides and the shield is to specific to protect... Yes your basilisk battery will do work against my knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Just had to make sure don't wanna be cheating you of a save Corey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm using three knights I full well expect you to avoid my saves as much as possible! Besides those barrage things are target number one... Either that or hiding in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted April 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 "hiding" in combat against guard? ha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Guard blobs with metlabombs and a Priest to tie the Knights up is actually a great way to kill Knights. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I thought it was randomized to which side it hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I thought it was randomized to which side it hits. It says it is resolved against the side armor. No reference to which side, cover is calculated from the hole. I say no save and I'm the guy with a knight... Now I'm wondering what the itc faq says.. Final point the ion shield for knights is specifically front, rear left or right arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I can't find any mention of it in the ITC FAQ. They do at least define the arcs, tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I can't find any mention of it in the ITC FAQ. They do at least define the arcs, tho. Thanks for looking, I still maintain that the fluff says top rules say use side armor so there is no arc for barrage ion shield fails to protect. But then again using knights are showing me all kinds of weaknesses... It doesn't state fire arcs for the weapons so if you go by walker rules all the funds are hull mounted with pretty limited fire arcs. Also small squads right at their feet can't be shot cuz you can't place the first template... Just observations from some one that has very little supporting them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 How does the knights invulnerable save work against barrage weapons? Do they have to declare their top armor being protected by the save? It it whichever side the blast's hole is nearest to? Is it which side the firing unit is on? Thanks for asking this one, I keep forgetting and it's been on my mind. I really hate how GW still hasn't afforded us an actual "top" armor. Seems to come up enough where it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to have a more official ruling than hits side armor. Doesn't need another stat, just a note that the top and bottom arcs of the vehicle model are considered having the same armor value as the side arcs unless otherwise noted. Still, due to lack of an actual ruling, it would be reasonable to resolve the side hit based on the center hole of the blast marker for barrage weapons. Model is split into right side and left side, with dead center being the firer's choice. Then give the knight player the shield arc as per where the template lands in relation to which side armor is hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 It doesn't state fire arcs for the weapons so if you go by walker rules all the funds are hull mounted with pretty limited fire arcs. Also small squads right at their feet can't be shot cuz you can't place the first template... Just observations from some one that has very little supporting them I thought they fell under "the arc is wherever the gun can actually be pointed". Which leaves them with a pretty tight arc for the shoulder Stubber, but the Arm-mounted guns have close to a 270. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I thought they fell under "the arc is wherever the gun can actually be pointed". Which leaves them with a pretty tight arc for the shoulder Stubber, but the Arm-mounted guns have close to a 270. Arms are considered hull mounts with 45 degree arc of fire, both horizontally and vertically. This is in exception to the normal weapon rules, as walkers have their own special rules for arc of fire. In the past, walker's had a free pivot in the shooting phase to fire weapons. This is gone in 7th. So one of the big weak points for those Knights is their limited fire arc. It is notable that non-super heavy walkers use this 45 degree fire arc for overwatch, so can't overwatch against charges from the rear or side arcs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Arms are considered hull mounts with 45 degree arc of fire, both horizontally and vertically. This is in exception to the normal weapon rules, as walkers have their own special rules for arc of fire. In the past, walker's had a free pivot in the shooting phase to fire weapons. This is gone in 7th. So one of the big weak points for those Knights is their limited fire arc. It is notable that non-super heavy walkers use this 45 degree fire arc for overwatch, so can't overwatch against charges from the rear or side arcs. Huh. Learn something new every day. However, when I looked this up, it says that Walkers can fire Overwatch against Charging Units that are out of arc, unless they're Immobilized. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Huh. Learn something new every day. However, when I looked this up, it says that Walkers can fire Overwatch against Charging Units that are out of arc, unless they're Immobilized. Yeah, I simplified it a bit. Not a direct quote. Very notable super heavy walkers can't fire overwatch at all, it's in their special rules. Back to the anti-Knight tactics, the one I learned today is that not only can you ram walkers and super heavy walkers, but they can't death or glory against said ram. So, not only a pretty solid way to hit a Knight, but rams resolve armor based on facing, so even a lowly chimera can pen an Imperial Knight with a ram attack on the side/rear arc (half front armor+1 for being a tank). Dozer blade adds to front armor for this, so a dozer rhino can also pen side armor on a knight.... This one get's even more amusing with the Lord of Skulls, as it can ram other super heavies, and then fight in the ensuing assault phase. A great way to bypass charge rules.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Yep all these things are true. Finding using three knights to be more of a challenge than I first thought but really fun. Also by pointing out these weaknesses they are getting more acceptance as well! Pretty picture of in painted force... Grey knights and imperial knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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