Random House Rules

[fluger]

65 is fine, but 75 is too much?  I mean, I don't necessarily disagree, but 10 points seems like a very small amount to swing from bad to good.  

[pretre]

65 is fine, but 75 is too much?  I mean, I don't necessarily disagree, but 10 points seems like a very small amount to swing from bad to good.  

10 Points is a lot across 5-10 units. Most of my list fiddling often only consists of 50-100 points.

[fluger]

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing per se, it's just interesting how little it takes to swing something from Bad to Good.  

[WestRider]

And I was talking about even a bit bigger drop, taking upgunned Razors down to 55-60 Points, not just 60. At that point, if you're taking 4 or so of them, that frees up enough Points for an extra one, which seems pretty significant.

 

I definitely noticed the squeeze in my Mech Guard builds when the Chimera went from 55 to 65.

[pretre]

55 would be legit.

[Guest]

I'd like to see the LS storm added to more units, PA marines included. There isn't a fluff reason that they can't transport PA marines.

 

Then I'd like to see the Rhino, Razors, and whirlwinds, brought in line with the Hunter/Stalker for armor values. Getting AV12 on the sides of Predators, Vindicators and Exorcists (not SM, but same chasis) would also be a solid decision.

 

After that, I'd increase points of the hulls for the SM tanks, but decrease the weapon upgrade costs.

 

Last, I'd add optional 1-3 squadrons to all of the SM heavy slots which are vehicles, but not transports (Preds, whirlwinds, vindicators, hunter, stalker, Exorcists).

[pretre]

Ha! 1-3 av 13/12/10 exorcists per slot?

I'll take that one.

[WestRider]

I can see Side AV12 for the Predator and Vindicator, but the Rhino, Razorback, and especially Whirlwind are supposed to be fairly light, not with the same kind of high-visibility, high-priority role that the Hunter and Stalker have.

[pretre]

Yeah, 11/11/10's should stay so.

[Guest]

I can see Side AV12 for the Predator and Vindicator, but the Rhino, Razorback, and especially Whirlwind are supposed to be fairly light, not with the same kind of high-visibility, high-priority role that the Hunter and Stalker have.

Technically, the Rhino and Predator use the same base Chassis design.

[WestRider]

Yes, and the Predator is noted as having been up-armoured from that base, as has the Vindicator. For the Vindicator in particular, since there are actually bulked out armour bits on the side, I'd like to see better Side Armour.

[Guest]

Yes, and the Predator is noted as having been up-armoured from that base, as has the Vindicator. For the Vindicator in particular, since there are actually bulked out armour bits on the side, I'd like to see better Side Armour.

True.

 

So far, the only Rhino variant modeled to reflect armor changes is the SM Hunter/stalker.

 

Rather than better side armor, a special rule that gave SM vehicles +1 AV against barrage weapons would fill my needs. I would love better side armor, mind you, but really I just want a bit more durability against barrage.

[pretre]

Exorcist has obvious side armor upgrades as well/

[Guest]

Exorcist has obvious side armor upgrades as well/

And an open topped design if not using the FW versrion.

[WestRider]

And an open topped design if not using the FW versrion.

Power Armour on passengers/crew has generally been held to negate open topped status, regardless of the actual physical design. See Land Speeders, for instance.

[Guest]

Power Armour on passengers/crew has generally been held to negate open topped status, regardless of the actual physical design. See Land Speeders, for instance.

I know this. I'm thinking of that Tech Servitor that's Manning the "guns" as a non-PA model.

[pretre]

Not sure what the OT status has to do with higher side armor. Non sequitur?

[WestRider]

I know this. I'm thinking of that Tech Servitor that's Manning the "guns" as a non-PA model.

The Servitor isn't manning the guns. It's like a living vox caster or something.

 

Not sure what the OT status has to do with higher side armor. Non sequitur?

He's just talking about other correlations (or lack thereof) between modeling and rules.

[pretre]

Ahh gotcha

[Guest]

Ahh gotcha

You are correct, though, open topped and AV are separate.

 

The Servitor isn't manning the guns. It's like a living vox caster or something.

Was thinking he was playing the organ "missiles" and was therefore a gunner.

 

I do think the "additional armor" on the exorcist has always looked more decorative than functional.

[Guest]

House rule:

 

Give all the marines the same special, heavy, and pistol access, including chaos marines. Like chaos marines would gain grav, inferno and hand flamer pistol access, but only if the model would have pistol access normally.

[WestRider]

I dunno, some of those things are part of what give the different Armies their character. Particularly with the CSM, whose weapons tech has been completely split from the Imperium's for 10000 years. The fact that the STCs for man-portable Plasma Cannon and Multi-Meltas hadn't been discovered at that time, but they've maintained the practice of using man-portable Autocannon, gives a whole different firepower profile, and shapes the way the lists form up. Same with BA having more special Pistol options than the others.

[InfestedKerrigan]

House rule:

 

Give all the marines the same special, heavy, and pistol access, including chaos marines. Like chaos marines would gain grav, inferno and hand flamer pistol access, but only if the model would have pistol access normally.

 

Who doesn't have pistol access?  Possessed? Daemon Princes?       Just Daemon Units, really.  And Terminators.

 

 

@West Rider, I think for the reasons you mentioned, Chaos should have access to Loyalist Equipment, but Loyalists shouldn't have access to Chaos/Heresy Equipment.  Maybe have things have a 0-1 restriction unless you have Doc Oc leading your force?

[WestRider]

One of the bits of CSM fluff that I always liked from 2nd Ed was that part of their madness involved a particular hatred for anything the Imperium had come up with since the Heresy, since it reminded them of their failure in that campaign, and all that they had lost.

 

I do think CSM should be split into post-Heresy Renegade CSM and Traitor Legions Dexes, with the Traitor Legions having better access to cool Daemon Engines and such, while the Renegades would have some access to stuff like Razorbacks, Land Speeders, Plasma Cannon, Multi-Meltas, and Whirlwinds.

[Guest]

One of the bits of CSM fluff that I always liked from 2nd Ed was that part of their madness involved a particular hatred for anything the Imperium had come up with since the Heresy, since it reminded them of their failure in that campaign, and all that they had lost.

 

I do think CSM should be split into post-Heresy Renegade CSM and Traitor Legions Dexes, with the Traitor Legions having better access to cool Daemon Engines and such, while the Renegades would have some access to stuff like Razorbacks, Land Speeders, Plasma Cannon, Multi-Meltas, and Whirlwinds.

That's the reasoning behind storm bolters and a few others, but GW's fluff regarding the new stuff goes back and forth between new stuff and finding STCs for old stuff. Gravitation guns (grav guns), in example, are supposed to be from the Dark Age of Technology, which is pre-heresy. So no reason CSM shouldn't have grav access.

 

Who doesn't have pistol access?  Possessed? Daemon Princes?       Just Daemon Units, really.  And Terminators.

You missed my point. Logic to give models with special/heavy/pistol weapon access, a larger range of choices. 

 

In terms of who has access, that would your basic CSM squads. 2 special or 1 special & 1 heavy at the 10-man level, plus a champion with pistol access.