Armada initial impressions

[shmitty]

Short Version - It's not X-Wing

 

Played a couple of games of Armada with the starter set this afternoon and really enjoyed it. Other than the similar theme and some of the FFG bling, it really felt distinct from X-Wing. Lots of fun choices to be made and a very different set of problems to consider. It feels/plays more like BFG or Firestorm Armada than X-Wing.

 

Shooting before movement makes you really have to think ahead about how the board may change. The movement system is pretty cool despite some fiddliness with the maneuver tool. It definitely takes some practice to understand where you can end up. I ended up in a situation where my CR-90 was either flying off the table or directly in front of a Star Destroyer. Either way spelled the end of that ship.

 

Fighters are interesting as they almost have their own little game going on. Xwings and TIEs kill each other pretty efficiently, but I haven't seen either of them do much damage to a capital ship. Likewise, capital ships aren't very effective at hurting the fighters.

 

I'm looking forward to playing more games, especially at higher point values.

 

I'm on spring break this week, so if you're free during the day and want to get a game in, let me know.

[smashthedean]

I got a couple more games in over the weekend and learned a few things:

 

• The Minefield objective card is pretty cool (for Imps at least). Getting to set up fire lanes that the Rebels have to go down to avoid getting blown up by mines can pretty much guarantee some super-damaging shots from the main guns.
• Flying off the board is a lot easier than you might think, especially if you don't have Tarkin on your side to hand out navigation tokens. I did it once with my VSD during a learning game with no upgrade cards and my girlfriend did it with her Frigate in a regular game. If you're getting anywhere near the board edge, it's really important to get that Navigate command out there to slow down and turn!

I'm also starting to formulate my first real criticism of the game, but it is one that I'm hoping will be remedied in higher points games with more ships on the field. Currently though, squadron combat is too much of a dice game. There are strategic elements related to initial positioning and well-timed use of the squadron command, but with 360 line of sight it comes down to your dice rolls a lot more than any other part of the game.

 

I am still enjoying the game overall though and am looking forward to stepping things up to 300 points soon!

[generalripphook]

Let me say that Tarkin just only gets better when the Imperials have more ships. Played a game at 300 with two starter sets and his ability to give out those tokens is incredibly nice. 

 

Fighters are really nice at taking out ships that have already taken a beating or lost their shields. Especially for the rebels, to be able to have your ship take down VSD shields and have x-wings to follow up on that can be super deadly. 

 

I also love the Ion gun (cant remember the name) on the CR-90

[Bosco]

I found that in the first game I played that you can't afford to be too careful early with the rebels or you'll find yourself struggling to put out enough damage on the VSD (just a single core set) to make a significant impact.  Also, the squadron command is a HUGE help if your opponent isn't expecting it and hasn't locked down your fighters.

Gotta try combining two sets with my friend who also bought-in and see how it scales.  I think we were both a bit over-caution in our first game and made the requisite number of first-time mistakes as well...

 

The only aspect of the game I wasn't thrilled about was the slop/inaccuracy of the movement template.  At speed 4 it was far too much wiggle for the CR90 to make the same precision moves I've come to expect from X-wing using the path system/templates.

[jesselowe]

I wonder if the movement wiggle is deliberate, to allow for more flexibility in movement compared to X-wing. Haven't played yet, so I don't know how much wiggle there is.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Well the good news is the exact position of the ships is not 'as' important as it is in X-Wing but players should still strive to be as consistent as possible.

 

My first impression is still lots of love even though we really Need the first wave to bring the game in line with factions. (The Rebels don't have the fire power and the Empire doesn't have the movement.) When wave 1 hits the game will take off then when Wave 2 hits, say good bye to your spare money and game time.

[Munkie]

I've only played a couple of demos so I don't have a lot to add. The one thing that did seem annoying is that it doesn't come with nearly enough dice. I mean X-wing didn't come with enough as the game evolved, but only an X-wing at range 1 needed more dice than available in the core set.

 

In Armada, an X-wing squadron can't even attack with what they supply.

 

A minor complaint but kinda irritating.

[andozane]

that is kinda sad for the $100 price tag

[smashthedean]

Yeah, I feel like the dice thing is a minor gripe, but it is a pretty obvious moneygrab. I guess I just wish they had come out with the dice packs at the same time as the core set.

[Bosco]

I wonder if the movement wiggle is deliberate, to allow for more flexibility in movement compared to X-wing. Haven't played yet, so I don't know how much wiggle there is.

I don't think it was particularly intentional, but is an unfortunate reality of a multi-part articulating movement guide.  While I REALLY like the concept, in practice it makes for a bit more slop.  Not a deal-breaker in my eyes, the system has a different feel than X-wing, but there are definitely times when the movement felt a bit loose, either by the template wiggle or the socketing-system between the base and template not being particularly rigid.

 

My friend and I both had the FFG Star Wars Dice App on our phones, so it was never an issue for us, but without that it would be a serious nuissance.  They're basically forcing the purchase of the dice pack from the onset, those capitalist swine!

[smashthedean]

If you are a big fan of the dice app, I bet you could make some good money selling off your dice before the packs come out!

[Matt Israel]

Played couple games now and really enjoying the game play. Hoping to get more games in over the next few weeks.

[smashthedean]

I got my first 300 point game in last night and it was a lot of fun! I ran two VSDs (II with Tarkin, Enhanced Armament, Overload Pulse, Weapons Liason & I with Dominator, Enhanced Armament, Weapons Liason), Howlrunner, and 5 TIEs against two Frigates (Escort with Dodonna, Enhanced Armament & Support naked), two Corvettes (A naked & B naked), and 6(!) X-Wings. I was definitely worried going in about the number of X-Wings I was looking at having to deal with! I had 298 and he had 299 so I gave him Initiative and made him choose between Advanced Gunnery, Hyperspace Assault, and Minefields, of which he picked Minefields.

 

Once again, I love Minefields. I was able to block off nearly half of the board and forced him to deploy all four of his capital ships faced off against my Star Destroyers. He spread his X-Wings out in groups of two and I kept my TIEs close together in a 6-ship swarm. Here are some highlight of the game because I like using bullet points in Armada threads apparently:

 

• He moved his Escort frigate up into close range of my VSD I, letting me blast him real good. I took out his shields and did 4 damage to his hull, leaving him only 1 HP left... which I promptly took away by ramming right through him! Definitely felt like a badass cinematic moment of the unstoppable Empire crushing the pitiful Rebellion.
• My TIE squadrons got shot up like crazy by his capital ships. Even with just 1 die per shot, when your squadrons are all clumped together and there are multiple ships shooting at you, it can hurt! Thankfully I used the Squadron Command a lot and was able to blow apart my share of X-Wings (Weapons Liason came in handy for this in later rounds)
• One of his Corvettes was able to zoom past my lines at speed 4 and it was essentially impossible for my VSD to turn around to face him. I ended up nearly slamming my VSDs into eachother to get the other one facing that direction and it was very reminiscent of the scene from ESB with the Star Destroyers practically scraping against each other while chasing down the Falcon.

In the end, I pulled out a solid victory with both of my VSDs surviving and two TIE squadrons left (with 1 HP each) while he had the Support Frigate and one X-Wing squadron remaining. I think the game took around 2 hours (I still had time for an X-Wing game after it was over) and flowed pretty smoothly.

[InfestedKerrigan]

This makes me want to install Rebellion on my laptop. 

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Yeah, I feel like the dice thing is a minor gripe, but it is a pretty obvious moneygrab. I guess I just wish they had come out with the dice packs at the same time as the core set.

It was suppose to. But there were some port issues that throw their whole release schedule out the window and under the bus.

[shmitty]

Got a 300 point game in with misreal yesterday. The extra ships, squadrons, and upgrades certainly added some nice layers to the game. As the game grows, one of the challenges will be in maneuvering your fleet in a way that the ships can support each other.

 

I'm still getting used to the shoot, then move mechanic. I got one of Nebulons killed for not thinking that through very well.

 

Dodonnas ability is not near as useful in the game as Tarkington, but when it does kick in, it can have a large impact.

 

Overload Pulse and Enhanced Armament are probably the most useful upgrades in the core box. Both of the Liasons combo really we'll with the extra tokens from Tarkin.

[intrizic]

that is kinda sad for the $100 price tag

I don't agree with this but I've heard it said this is a $50 game in a $100 box

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I don't agree with this but I've heard it said this is a $50 game in a $100 box

If you bought the part separate it would cost over $100 and the damage deck, movement tool and bits come free.

 

The issue some are having is that some companies have been having Cheap starters with less than great models rules wise so you have to buy new models shortly after to replace the ones you got with the starter.

 

In other words it might not seem like a great deal until you break it down and look at what you get and what little else you need to have a great fleet. If you go Empire you can go with a dice set, GSD and a Squadron pack and you are set until wave 2. Heck throw another VSD in and you're talking about a complete 300 point fleet with tons of options and all the imperial ships for under $200.

 

What other game can you do this? Even X-Wing looks great at first until you realize you have to buy two starter sets and then the other ships to get a good variety which comes to about $200. So how are you saving in the long run. That's how I am looking at it, the Long Run not the Buy In becuase I have watched a lot of companies throw out cheap starters becuase they know you have to buy a couple hundred more to remain competitive. It's the sucker deal.

[Munkie]

So I played my first 180 point battle after I read the rules for myself and built a list. I screwed some stuff up, but I'm really liking the game.

 

I did realize I'm not a huge fan of Luke. He's 7 extra points, and in 3 games, I've never attacked a ship with X-wings at all--much less with him. The brace tokens are nice, but accuracy comes up often enough that he seems to die only a little bit slower than a regular X-wing.

 

In my first couple games, I wasn't a huge fan of the Corvette because it got one-shotted two games in a row. Now that I've got a better feel for manipulating activation order and speed, I really like it! I'm gonna try overload pulse in the next game because that sounds awesome!

 

On the other hand, I'm liking nebulons less and less. That 1 shield on the side arc is just brutal. They're good for squadrons, and dealing with enemy squadrons but just so fragile. Once the Mk 2 assault frigate comes out, I'll probably be running 1 of those and 3 corvettes instead.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I picked up the Starter Wednesday.  Haven't had a chance to play, yet.  Might go to the FLGS Saturday to see if any others want to play.  I know a few of the Starters have sold.  I am going to pick up a second Conquest and a second Armada starter next month.  I'm just not sure which one first.

 

The models are amazing!  The dials on the bases are interesting.  I'm not sure about the movement tool, yet.  We will see how it is in play.  I don't like the material, I guess.  I'm really impressed with the stock paint job.  If I repainted them, I don't think I'd want to "touch them up."  I'd want to do custom paint jobs, and not just Red.  The thing is, that doesn't make sense.  Perhaps patterns, like the Republic ships.  

[InfestedKerrigan]

I figured I payed full retail for 1 Starter, I decided I was fine with ordering a second for $70 bucks.  It should be here Friday, so I can go down to the Game Store Saturday with Twin Vics, 4 rebel ships and a swarm of fighters.  Hopefully someone will be down there interested in playing.  

[smashthedean]

I got my second 300 point game in against Kevin with me as Imps and him Rebel Scum. I brought my same list as before with:

 

VSD II: Tarkin, Enhanced Armament, Weapons Liaison, Overload Pulse

VSD I: Dominator, Enhanced Armament, Weapons Liaison

Howlrunner

TIE Fighter x 5

 

Kevin brought (correct me if I'm wrong)

Escort Frigate: Dodonna

Escort Frigate

Corvette B: Overload Pulse, Leia

Corvette A

Luke

X-Wing x 4

 

I had 298 to his 300 so I chose for him to have Initiative and he chose Advanced Gunnery from my objectives (I also had Minefields and Contested Outpost). I made my VSD I my objective ship and he chose the CR-90A. He deployed the 90A in the far-left corner facing towards the center of the board and I put both of my VSDs and my TIEs in the left corner with the idea that he'd have a hard time getting behind me. He deployed the rest of his fleet in the center of the board along with his X-Wings, evidently hoping to catch me in some sort of pincer attack. I swung my VSDs around to the right as he moved his fleet forward with the lone 90A flying across the board, seemingly hoping to distract me from the primary threat ahead. Unfortunately (for it), it flew into range of my flagship and after I dropped its shields with a long-range volley from my port turbolasers, I finished it off with a medium-range shot from forward guns. Things continued to go downhill for the Rebels as I used Squadron commands to pick apart his fighters and though I took some heavy shield damage from his Overload Pulse Corvette, he put himself in close-range of my VSD I's forward guns and was blown apart by heavy blastin'. His naked Escort Frigate met a similar fate the following round as Dodonna did his best to damage the VSD I, bringing it down to only 1 hull remaining before he too was wiped out with concentrated fire from both of my ships. My takeaways from this game were:

• Deploying VSDs in the corner is a good move, which for Rebels, means that blocking corner deployment lanes with obstacles is an equally good move.
• Rebel ships, to quote Admiral Ackbar, "won't last long against those Star Destroyers" if they don't stay out of firing range of those big guns. It is clearly easier said than done, but VSDs really are slow as hell and Rebels really need to use their speed to their advantage. Moving flat-out and using hit-and-run tactics is the way it has to go.
• TIE Fighters with Howlrunner are X-Wing killing machines. Using the Squadron command at the right time and having Weapons Liaisons around to bring them online when needed is super important to winning the space-superiority game.
• Wave 1 is going to change a lot. Rebels really do need the Assault Frigate and the new fighter options to take down the Imps. I think the Gladiator and the Imperial fighters are going to be fun for some variety, but double VSDs and TIE Fighters are plenty solid on their own  in a way that the Rebel forces available really aren't yet without a lot of finesse.

And that's about it. Kevin, feel free to weigh in with your thoughts on the game or whatever. Other people, you should post more reports of how things are going for you too! This is still very much a new game and I think there is still a lot of figuring out to do on both sides of the battlefield.

[Munkie]

I'm not really sure what to make of it. I know I made some mistakes in regards to which ships I activated at what time but I think my main hangup is 6 turns. I don't see any possible way to kill a star destroyer in 6 turns if I'm using hit and run tactics. I can hit, I can run, and maybe I can turn around in enough time to hit at most one more time. But probably not. 2 turns minimum to position, 1 to shoot and move (pray I don't get one-shotted (which I will)), at least 2 more turns to swing back around, and then its the final turn. Each of my ships shooting twice per game (unless they die) just can't kill a VSD that doesn't want to die.

 

But with tarkin, spamming repair actions, and weapons liaison, you always have the right order at the right time.

 

I feel like the only way rebels have a shot is to underbid and make imps choose one of their objective cards. I really like the inclusion of objective cards but I don't like that the game is largely won or lost based on that alone. Makes moving ships around and shooting lasers less interesting since it's less consequential.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I really like the inclusion of objective cards but I don't like that the game is largely won or lost based on that alone. Makes moving ships around and shooting lasers less interesting since it's less consequential.

 

Think about the movies or the books, though.  The only time the Rebels openly attempted to do a Fleet Action against enemy ships, that was the Objective (Death Star, Death Star II, World Devastators, Eclipse, those Lizard Birds that mucked with Jedi, etc).  The Majority of the time, the Objective revolved around something else, and they were avoiding loss of assets at all costs.  Losing a single ship is far more impacting for the Rebellion than it is for the Empire, so having the game be an Annihilation mission every time, or even most of the time, doesn't make sense to me from a Story perspective.  

[Munkie]

I totally agree with that, but I think a better system would be each player chooses one of the 3 cards from his opponent's hand and both are played. A primary and secondary objective.

 

As it is, it seems that you're the first player, you're probably going to lose, if you're the second player, you've got a good chance of winning.

 

I don't have a problem with objectives existing, I have a problem with them being so influential that what's in my list or how I fly it is far less important than how many points I took.