Jump to content

OFCC using end times? WTF?!?!?!


Recommended Posts

Ok I was just made aware that OFCC has decided to use end times, when was this decision made?  I have to say I'm pretty disappointed by this decision.  End times is not just not balanced, it's utterly ridiculous.  There are quite a few of us upon this revelation that are seriously considering not coming, myself included.  Games against end times lists have been some of the worst games of warhammer I have ever played, and the idea of spending what is already a pricey tournament to come and face off against those types of lists doesn't thrill me in the slightest.  

 

I understand it's your show and your rules, but I also understand that I can choose to go if I want to, so I likely will choose not to.  Colour me very disappointed since I've only missed just one OFCC since it all started.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

magic phase is NOT in use(i think pretty much everyone would go ape-**** about that).  john is allowing end times but he hit them hard, harder than BSB in march if i recall.  i think it will be ok.  as stated, this event is based on swedish and actually matters for the comp score so regular lists should do just fine.  comp 8 is the bottom line and its very hard to bring the full on stupidity that you can get in end times at that(nagash is probably the best end times character for this tournament and he still has weaknesses).   plus your group has to average isnt it at least a 12?  so if someone brings an 8 there will be a 16 so captains can always pair the silly list against your teams tough list(or at least sacrificial lamb) while the rest of you should be sitting fine on comp line against the other 3.  also, the swedish difference score is actually calculated into the victory point total right?  i hope so...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aw man don't bail, Joel, Micah, Karl and I put a team together this year mostly to see old friends and you're one of the main reasons we are excited to come!

It's true that there are some really stupid characters and the Lore of Undeath is pretty whack, but they are mostly addressed in Comp and I would be surprised to see more than one or two "lame" lists, which is pretty much the case every year any way!  After all there isn't anything really wrong per-se with ET lists, they're just "even more abusable" than non-ET lists, right?

 

That said, I think it's critical to make sure that teams are matched based in part on combined comp score.  I think a very simple matching algorithm would address most of the potential issues with ET armies.  If I work with Sylvos on a matching system will you still come?  PLEASE?!? :)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

End Times isn't all that different from the jank that currently exists; it's just newer.  Sure some of the special characters are super out there, but in Swedish that shouldn't be much of a problem.  Lore of Undeath is a very interesting lore in terms of its power, but it's also a base part of the game so it wouldn't matter whether this was End Times or not.  Really the hysteria that's gone on about how "busted" End Times is is pretty ridiculous.  The two grand legions are pretty dumb in terms of what they can do (the Eternity King in particular is obviously not well thought out), but there isn't a noticeable difference between playing against them and playing against other top armies in terms of tactical difficulty and I personally find the list change ups (and new units) to be refreshing.

 

I'd say they're not much fun for you because people aren't sure how to rein themselves in yet (which is partially caused by how new the books are and partially caused because of the stigma ET has).  Swedish will definitely curb the worst excesses, especially considering the team comp added, so it's not like you're going to see Team Archaon and His Amazing Aboms.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in agreement with Kremmet here.  In comped environments I have seen end times lists do nothing other than create more variety.  In uncomped, I've seen some ridiculous lists which STILL get beaten by the average player.  

 

With the strict comp restrictions in place I doubt anything nutty will be going on, so please don't base your attendance on a fear of mega lists.  It would be a shame to lose out on people just for that reason. OFCC aint about that life :cool:

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Undead Legions and Legions of Chaos at least, Swedish Comp does a really good job of keeping End Times in check. I don't really know about the Elf list because I haven't seen it on the field, but Jim and I are both running End Times lists these days (Chaos for him and Undead for me) and haven't found them to be any more powerful than their comp score reflects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sorry, but elf lists getting all of the abilities (murderous prowess, etc) of all 3 books and the ability to cherry pick from the best lists?  Under the current comp isn't hit any extra, just use the comp hits from their respective lists? I can understand you still going since it's local NtK and Raindog, but for me I'm looking at $75US + food + accomodations, which with the current exchange rate is getting way up there expensive.  I love you guys a lot and love coming to play and see you guys, but I have to pick and choose my events due to financial responsibility, so I won't be attending ones I don't like, so unless there's some pretty dramatic changes this one will likely draw a pass from me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, Eternity King armies are a good example of getting a "free" boost to a list from ET.  Cherry-picking doesn't help a whole lot because in general the cherry units are pretty heavily comped, and there are some funny comp overlaps that hit you if you're trying to abuse certain angles.  But, Doomfire Warlocks getting to fight in an extra rank, or Wildriders getting Murderous, is pretty lame.  Eh, Elves already cheat and they know it... only lowlifes play them anyway!! :)

 

All I can say is, don't let concern over a mismatch which will probably never happen to you prevent you from coming and having a great time!  Just give it some thought before you decide.  Heck, I'll buy you dinner one night to defray costs :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to put it out there, the 40k event last year was wide open with super heavies and other things that have a stigma in the 40k community and it was one of the best OFCCs I went to because the lists were rated and captains matched up games.  I mean, when has any GW game not had way out of whack stuff?  

 

Obviously, I'm not as deep in on Fantasy as I used to be, but I don't think there's any imbalance that Ordo can't overcome with the OFCC format.  Just my two cents as a fanboi.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am truly sorry that this information has come to you so late. I know John worked very hard to have these rules in place early, and they have been publicly available for 2 months now. End Times inclusion has been there from the beginning, and much time has been spent on the comp system to adjust for it.

 

I think we are now in a position where people have been building and playing armies based on that rules pack long enough that a late adjustment would be unfair to them.

 

I hope you reconsider attending. I'd like to think OFCC is so much more than just playing 5 games over two days.

 

If you do choose not to come to the event, you will be missed.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sorry, but elf lists getting all of the abilities (murderous prowess, etc) of all 3 books and the ability to cherry pick from the best lists? Under the current comp isn't hit any extra, just use the comp hits from their respective lists? I can understand you still going since it's local NtK and Raindog, but for me I'm looking at $75US + food + accomodations, which with the current exchange rate is getting way up there expensive. I love you guys a lot and love coming to play and see you guys, but I have to pick and choose my events due to financial responsibility, so I won't be attending ones I don't like, so unless there's some pretty dramatic changes this one will likely draw a pass from me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many games have you played against Eternity King lists?

 

How many games have you played against other End Times lists?

 

How many times have you used End Times list yourself or tried developing a list to combat other End Times lists?

 

If your answer is 0 to very little. I strongly recommend getting some more test games in. I had the same knee jerk reaction until I got quite a few games in both using and playing against End Times. It's not any worse then any other big change that's happened over the years. You can look at current tournamet results to prove it.

 

If you have put in a lot of play testing and still don't care for the current state of the game then I respect your opinion and I am sure we will miss having you.

 

I would also reccomend reading this awesome article on the current state of the game.

 

http://paint-hammer.blogspot.com/2015/04/9th-edition-is-supposedly-coming.html?spref=tw&m=1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would prefer not to use End Times and agree with Veskit's criticisms. However, it is the OFCC, and for the sake of playing with old friends, I am going.

 

Here's the other thing: even if you discount the great people, old rivalries, great atmosphere and energy, etc., the OFCC is STILL more likely to be 5 good games of WFB than almost any other event!  Consider:

 

1) It's comped using slightly modified (for ET) Swedish comp

2) It has comp-based matching, which will pit high-comp teams with similar records against each other, and low-comp teams with similar records against each other

3) It has a "stupid list, try again" filter applied

4) It has captain-driven matching to try to create good matchups (this alone makes up for SO MUCH)

5) It has a team-first, fun-first scoring system which will remove incentive for people to get too wound up in winning

 

Really, I can't see how a few borked armies (potentially featuring a borked SC) which are actually more likely to be present at any other tournament can diminish all those other factors in its favor.  And as I said, that's not even considering all the "intangibles".

 

I'm not just trying to sell you guys on the OFCC (I shouldn't have to!) but objectively speaking, I think your concerns, though valid, are clouding your perspective on the event as a whole!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, Eternity King armies are a good example of getting a "free" boost to a list from ET.  Cherry-picking doesn't help a whole lot because in general the cherry units are pretty heavily comped, and there are some funny comp overlaps that hit you if you're trying to abuse certain angles.  But, Doomfire Warlocks getting to fight in an extra rank, or Wildriders getting Murderous, is pretty lame.  Eh, Elves already cheat and they know it... only lowlifes play them anyway!! :)

 

All I can say is, don't let concern over a mismatch which will probably never happen to you prevent you from coming and having a great time!  Just give it some thought before you decide.  Heck, I'll buy you dinner one night to defray costs :)

 

 

This made me chuckle because of the thought of worrying about a 3rd rank of warlocks in Swedish.

 

Swedish people do not permit this many warlocks. The do not enjoy warlocks. =P

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I challenge anyone to make and post an OTT Eternity King list. Y're not going to see The Eternity King at this event. I made a sample Eternity King list usinmg the Eternity King for BSB and I had a comp score of 0.2. That was without witches, multiple units of dark riders, executioneers, and anything else that mattered.

 

As for some of the examples. NtK, when was the last time you played against a unit of 15 warlocks? They will get hit too hard with comp for that unit to be at OFCC.

 

The comp pack is restricting End Times armies and good luck getting the "suped" up characters in the lsits. Remember, there is still a minimum comp score each person needs to hit, and then there's the minimum team comp score which needs to be achieved.

 

I seriouslly doubt anyone needs to worry about OTT End Times for OFCC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quit yer whining, Dan. The news has been out for months. Comp seems to be taking care of stuff, and the (genius) requirement that teams have a total comp of at least 50 means that even if someone needs to bring a crummy list, you won't have a whole team full of garbage. Swedish takes care of it. You'll be fine. And too drunk to care.

 

First Fantasy OFCC I've played in ages, and if you're not there, I'm burning down Canada. All of it.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This made me chuckle because of the thought of worrying about a 3rd rank of warlocks in Swedish.

 

Swedish people do not permit this many warlocks. The do not enjoy warlocks. =P

 

It was just an example of an already-tough unit that gets a boost from Khaine without getting a comp penalty to go with it.  Likely or not, it's a "hole" in the ET Comp addendum but make no mistake, I'm far from worrying about it.  The only OFCC-related worry I have is finding time to make a damn display board :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...