Random Thought Thread

[Guest]

1 hour ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I meant cutting to attempt suicide, which is largely ineffectual.  

Cutting for relief/release is a different thing, a very maladaptive coping mechanism.  Paint or markers can have a similar effect of relief, which is kind of distracting the mind and breaking the current flow that is driving things. I don't encourage this sort of cutting, either. I also have friends that are only alive, because they were cutters and it helped them, in whatever fashion, get through high school/early adulthood. 

As for survival instincts, I want to die on my terms, and I don't want to harm others. So, I am a safe, aware driver, as an example. I will eat despite apathy and despondency. "Going through the motions," you hear it called.

You and I are on the same page here.

[Guest]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:14 AM, WestRider said:

That's actually a separate factor. The third is the feeling of being a burden on those around you. People with all three are far more likely to actually kill themselves than even those with two of the three factors.

Thought about that one too, the feeling of being a burden. That one's tricky because while being a burden, others may be dependent on you all the same. Linked in our dysfunction. In this respect, being a burden parallels being a pet.

I'm unclear if it's ego or reality, but I suspect that certain people in my life wouldn't be able to handle my death. Definitely seems like ego that one would want to escape life, yet would care how those living reacted to their death. Such contradictions...

[WestRider]

On 11/21/2019 at 10:59 AM, paxmiles said:

Thought about that one too, the feeling of being a burden. That one's tricky because while being burden, others may be dependent on you all the same. Linked in our dysfunction. In this respect, being a burden parallels being a pet.

I'm unclear if it's ego or reality, but I suspect that certain people in my life wouldn't be able to handle my death. Definitely seems like ego that one would want to escape life, yet would care how those living reacted to their death. Such contradictions...

Let's be clear here: Most people attempting suicide are not seeing all the factors clearly and rationally. People who are really capable of seeing all sides of the situation don't kill themselves.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Let's be clear here: Most people attempting suicide are not seeing all the factors clearly and rationally. People who are really capable of seeing all sides of the situation don't kill themselves.

Sounds like propaganda that the living faction would use to deter other living from becoming part of the dead faction. lol.

If they kill themselves, you don't really have the ability to determine if they considered all the factors clearly and rationally because you can't ask them.

If they "attempt" to kill themselves, but don't succeed at suicide, then it's a given that they didn't consider all the factors because they didn't succeed. If they adjusted their method of suicide to cover all variables, then it would have succeeded, obviously.

And if the person is convinced that they can actually see all factors that implies a degree of arrogance/delusion on the person's part, since being able to see all sides of a situation is downright inhuman.

Additionally, while a person is known to be suicidal, official policy is to imprison them via a hospital until they are determined to no longer be suicidal. So if someone fails to suicide and wants to try again, they'll need to lie on the official record, showing that they regretted their suicide, so as to be released so they could try again. So any sort of stats regarding people recanting their suicidal desires are somewhat suspect, since they're basically coerced into recanting.

[WestRider]

21 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

If they kill themselves, you don't really have the ability to determine if they considered all the factors clearly and rationally because you can't ask them.

If they "attempt" to kill themselves, but don't succeed at suicide, then it's a given that they didn't consider all the factors because they didn't succeed. If they adjusted their method of suicide to cover all variables, then it would have succeeded, obviously.

First point: Suicide notes are a thing. They often pretty clearly show the disruptions in the person's reasoning. In other situations, these factors were clear before-hand, but were either ignored or insufficient precautions were taken to prevent suicide. In still others, there were people there at the time who were flat out told why.

Second point: There are often a lot of factors that are impossible to account for or control in a suicide attempt. Leaving that aside, tho, I'm talking about considering the factors that would lead someone to the decision to attempt suicide. Enough people have failed and then talked about it that the thought patterns are pretty clear.

A side note: There are actually some people who have killed themselves rationally, such as spies captured during warfare who would have otherwise revealed vital information. The accounts of these provide an important contrast to the more common patterns.

Finally: All the records we have on this, as far back as we have them, are really quite impressively consistent. Not 100%, but enough so that conclusions can be reliably drawn from them. Basically what you're doing here is pitting your reasoning from first principles against the evidence-based collective knowledge of the human race over the course of centuries.

[Guest]

Hmm...sounds like you are more involved with this one than I was. I put an "lol" in there. I figured that was enough to indicate my humor with my response. It's always hard to portray a big smile while typing in the text itself. I even described it as propaganda from the "living faction."

I could debate your points further, but I don't really want get into something overly serious on the topic of actual suicide. I liked the detached conversation we were having before.

And I was more referencing my earlier comment with regards to calling it propaganda:

On 11/20/2019 at 12:48 PM, paxmiles said:

Ever consider that our entire basis of death comes from what living people have reported? It's a rather bias source....

 

[WestRider]

Yeah, the "lol" went unnoticed. Smileys are better for that sort of thing because the different colouring makes them stand out.

And yeah, this is something I feel pretty strongly about. I've struggled for decades with depression and suicidal ideation, and I've seen a number of friends torn apart by the suicides of people close to them. It's not really something I can argue about without getting invested.

[Ish]

Respectfully to all involved, but perhaps we should segue the discussion on be psychology, metaphysics, and philosophy around suicide to the Realm of Chaos sub forum and return this thread to silly random thoughts.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, WestRider said:

I've struggled for decades with depression and suicidal ideation

I'm in the same boat, but I'm pretty able to talk about it in a detached manner. But I do understand that others aren't always able to talk about it in such a manner. Sorry about that.

 

[Guest]

Hmm...need a new random thought.....

Tortoise....

[InfestedKerrigan]

26 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I'm in the same boat, but I'm pretty able to talk about it in a detached manner. But I do understand that others aren't always able to talk about it in such a manner. Sorry about that.

Believe me when I say West and I are talking about it from a very detached aspect when we are talking about it. At least I assume so, based on the way they utilize certain things. Not to get into a dick contest about suicidality, rather to give you a clear example of context to read past in the future.  Generally, in my experience, people who have attempted or who have lost an intimate to suicide talk in a different way about it than most of society.  So, even though west mentions being emotionally invested, that does not mean unable to discuss in a "detached" fashion.  Rather, it becomes an issue of making sure the aspects and issues are understood and respected as it is a rubix cube, to over simplify it. And again, not assuming anyone elses experiences. 

 

 

 

 

Bartender told us "state law says cannot serve someone any more alcohol after they have consumed two Long Island ice teas." I thought about pulling out my OLCC card and calling BS, but I understand the practice of falling back on "the law" as an excuse to shut people up.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Believe me when I say West and I are talking about it from a very detached aspect when we are talking about it. At least I assume so, based on the way they utilize certain things. Not to get into a dick contest about suicidality, rather to give you a clear example of context to read past in the future.  Generally, in my experience, people who have attempted or who have lost an intimate to suicide talk in a different way about it than most of society.  So, even though west mentions being emotionally invested, that does not mean unable to discuss in a "detached" fashion.  Rather, it becomes an issue of making sure the aspects and issues are understood and respected as it is a rubix cube, to over simplify it. And again, not assuming anyone elses experiences.

I was worried it would come across wrong. Should trust my gut more. Couldn't figure out how to express myself. Was trying to apologize for getting west worked up, but in a way that doesn't suggest fault in getting worked up. Still think that I can't word it quite right.

 

[Guest]

Random thought:

Bathwater is the first ingredient to making human soup.

[Sgt. Rock]

21 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Random thought:

Bathwater is the first ingredient to making human soup.

https://tenor.com/bbzm5.gif

I can't figure out how to link gifs properly.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Rock said:

https://tenor.com/bbzm5.gif

I can't figure out how to link gifs properly.

right click image>copy image location>paste in thread

[Sgt. Rock]

Thanks. Forums are hard.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Unfortunately, it sometimes doesn't work cuz of hosting lock down to protect bandwidth, or because the gif isn't actually a gif, but animated via other means. 

[WestRider]

Bursitis? More like ursitis. As in, it feels like a bear is gnawing on my hip.

[WestRider]

I keep getting recommendations for lesbian vampire romance novels mixed in with my lesbian werewolf romance novels. Kindle, have your algorithms learned nothing? You'd be closer to the mark recommending me like physics textbooks or something.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Honestly, I see very little difference between the Laser Disc adventures and watching things on HDR.

[InfestedKerrigan]

On 11/29/2019 at 6:22 PM, WestRider said:

I keep getting recommendations for lesbian vampire romance novels mixed in with my lesbian werewolf romance novels. Kindle, have your algorithms learned nothing? You'd be closer to the mark recommending me like physics textbooks or something.

The ad algorithm thinks I'm a post-menopausal woman.  I feel your pains, and the need to use an adult diaper to help with sneeze pees. 

[andy]

There are worse things. My wife and I share a Kindle account, so I have to be very cautious opening amazon.com at work due to all the semi-NSFW mom-porn it pushes on me. I think there must be a lot of money in painting abs for book covers.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, andy said:

There are worse things. My wife and I share a Kindle account, so I have to be very cautious opening amazon.com at work due to all the semi-NSFW mom-porn it pushes on me. I think there must be a lot of money in painting abs for book covers.

There's a way in Amazon Prime to manually go through your browsing history and tell it which things not to count when making suggestions. Not sure exactly how, I always find it on accident.

 

[Guest]

On 11/29/2019 at 6:22 PM, WestRider said:

I keep getting recommendations for lesbian vampire romance novels mixed in with my lesbian werewolf romance novels. Kindle, have your algorithms learned nothing? You'd be closer to the mark recommending me like physics textbooks or something.

Sometimes I wonder if it's purposely very wrong, so you'll attempt to correct it.

 

My personal peeve is when they suggest the same product you already have, but in another format. It doesn't get that the two products aren't different enough for me to need two.

[Guest]

Could you redesign adblock, to instead of blocking ads, to replace the ads with different ads?

If so, kinda surprised it's not already a thing. Rather than just deny ad revenue, you could have your app redirect the ad revenue to another source..