pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Again, this comes back to the idea that GW makes good rules to sell models which I don't think is supported by history. I think it is largely chance, again historically, when something new is good. Maybe they are doing it consciously now though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Looking at that last wave of Nid releases, I can't really see it, myself. Maleceptor was terrible, the Toxicrene was meh, Venomthropes got no new Rules despite that fact that IA4.2 pretty much made them irrelevant, Zoanthropes got a new option, but it's expensive and mediocre, the Sporocyst is situational at best, and the Tyrannocyte is OK, but overpriced and lacking some equivalent of the Drop Pod Assault Rule. Probably the best thing to come out of that wave was the Mucolid, which isn't actually all that good, but it's cheaper than the other bad Troop Choices Nids have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 And I think you can go to almost every major release and see the same thing. I'd be willing to say that less than a third of new models actually meet the 'model with rules that make you want to buy it' criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Maybe we're looking at this all wrong, maybe GWs thought was 'how do we make the Wave Serpent seem reasonable?' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 In interviews both the dev team guys and Jes have stated the models and what will and won't be in the kit comes first from the sculptors and sprue engineers, then the dev team comes up with rules. So if Jes says, "Hey ole chap, I think bikes look bees knees with a scatter laser so I am including one for each bike in the kit." then the dev guys go "Well I say kind sir, that sounds swell, we will let every bike have a scatter laser or a shuriken cannon. We will cost it at 10 points cause that is a good round number. Tally ho!" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 those onager walkers with Icarus array may make the WS seem reasonable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I found the balancing point that they will put in the codex: 'Dying Race' - The Eldar are too few to waste their lives in pointless conflicts. If 25% of the Eldar force is destroyed or fleeing at the end of a game turn, the Eldar player removes all remaining models from the table. I counter with:Dying Race. To truly show the devastating effects of each Eldar death on the table top, each unit from Codex: Eldar Craftworlds that is removed from play as a casualty shall be immediately smashed with a hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I counter with: Dying Race. To truly show the devastating effects of each Eldar death on the table top, each unit from Codex: Eldar Craftworlds that is removed from play as a casualty shall be immediately smashed with a hammer. We win by attrition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warwick Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I would hazard that there's just a disconnect between each team. More variety means more disparity of ideas. I don't sense much collaboration between the designers of each book, even if they are all purported to be a collaborative work. My Scions at least seem to debunk the Op rules for new models theory. Dying race rule would be fluffy and potentially crunchy. I can't see an Autarch casually throwing guardians into the grinder when one Eldar is worth any number of any other race in their eyes. Maybe at 75% points lost they open a webway portal; if all units escape its a draw, if they fall below 50% it's a loss. I guess it's just a narrative game at that point though, and fairly enough that is not what every player seeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I would hazard that there's just a disconnect between each team. More variety means more disparity of ideas. I don't sense much collaboration between the designers of each book, even if they are all purported to be a collaborative work. My Scions at least seem to debunk the Op rules for new models theory. Dying race rule would be fluffy and potentially crunchy. I can't see an Autarch casually throwing guardians into the grinder when one Eldar is worth any number of any other race in their eyes. Maybe at 75% points lost they open a webway portal; if all units escape its a draw, if they fall below 50% it's a loss. I guess it's just a narrative game at that point though, and fairly enough that is not what every player seeks. Not every player seeks to have D sprayed all over their face while swatting at mosquitoes, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 As pointed out earlier, they don't even balance units within codexes against each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 This whole Eldar codex debacle is why I have stepped away from 40k. On a micro level it's easy to see the effects of 40 SL shots from a single unit of jetbikes has on a game, it's easy to see even purely theoretically. On a macro level you can see the effect it will have on the community, which is already polarizing and charging with negativity. GW doesn't or won't see this 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 This whole Eldar codex debacle is why I have stepped away from 40k. Meh. I've been through polarizing events before. This may be a lot worse but it is still no reason to step away from 40k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Meh. I've been through polarizing events before. This may be a lot worse but it is still no reason to step away from 40k. I respect you Pretre, truly i do, we haven't seen the worst of this yet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I respect you Pretre, truly i do, we haven't seen the worst of this yet Heard it before and I'll hear it again. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'll say that what drove me from Fantasy was a similar power spike in late 7th edition. Daemons were so above and beyond compared to the other armies it was ludicrous. I'm feeling the same with this Eldar dex. I'm less inclined to walk away, but I'm more inclined to not bother trying to be competitive in big events. I just don't have the time or money to either arm up with Eldar or figure out counters to it. Most likely, I'll just play games at my house and have fun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'll still go to events because that's where I get my games. I'll take my lumps and roll with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Notice I said not bother to try to be competitive. Not that I wouldn't go. :D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Notice I said not bother to try to be competitive. Not that I wouldn't go. :DHey, I play sisters primarily. Some folks would say that means I'm not really trying either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 best part of this thread: no rage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 best part of this thread: no rage Raaaaaaage! Doesn't Rage just play fantasy? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Not even. Just Malifaux now, I think. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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