InfestedKerrigan Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Started working on painting the Crusader. Also, picked up a box of Stormtroopers at the LGS yesterday and started assembling them last night at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 I've been thumbing through the AstraMil Dex, and have been enjoying the imagery of twin Vanquishers, Veterans with a ride, and a few Hydras. Around 700 points. Just under 2k with the addition of 3 Knights. Taking a single Veteran squad, 2 Hydras and 2 Vanquishers would allow me to take the 3 Knights at 1850. I feel like I'm biting off more than I can chew with that style list. Like, I would be better off going with Astra Mil, taking a solid developed Mech List and take 1-2 Knights as Allies. The Stormtrooper dex just has too few options, visually, for what I'd like to see on the table. EDIT: I just found this: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?92094-Waiting-to-Follow-the-Worms Time to resurrect that thread. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 I've been thumbing through the AstraMil Dex, and have been enjoying the imagery of twin Vanquishers, Veterans with a ride, and a few Hydras. Around 700 points. Just under 2k with the addition of 3 Knights. Taking a single Veteran squad, 2 Hydras and 2 Vanquishers would allow me to take the 3 Knights at 1850. I feel like I'm biting off more than I can chew with that style list. Like, I would be better off going with Astra Mil, taking a solid developed Mech List and take 1-2 Knights as Allies. The Stormtrooper dex just has too few options, visually, for what I'd like to see on the table. EDIT: I just found this: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?92094-Waiting-to-Follow-the-Worms Time to resurrect that thread. :) Just a heads up, the Dual Vanquishers are actually less accurate than PASK in a single vanquisher. He twin-links it at higher BS. Cheaper, but less HP and less targets. I do like the idea of Russes providing supporting fire for Knights. Would be a strong list, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Just a heads up, the Dual Vanquishers are actually less accurate than PASK in a single vanquisher. He twin-links it at higher BS. Cheaper, but less HP and less targets. I do like the idea of Russes providing supporting fire for Knights. Would be a strong list, I think. A Tank Commander Squadron has to have at least two Russes in it, tho, so the second one is kind of mandatory anyhow in an Allied Detachment like this. Plus, in an Allied Detachment, Pask can't get his Warlord Trait, which makes him significantly less awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 A Tank Commander Squadron has to have at least two Russes in it, tho, so the second one is kind of mandatory anyhow in an Allied Detachment like this. Plus, in an Allied Detachment, Pask can't get his Warlord Trait, which makes him significantly less awesome. True. That said, they've got that split fire tank command, so you can mix tanks and not feel any loss most of the time. Personally, I'm experimenting with Vanquisher Pask and 1-2 Eradicators for my allied AM. Against skimmers (and other cover based vehicles) they all fire at the same target, while they'd split against high AV and hordes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Eradicators with Multi-melta sponsons are a good combo. Normally I'm not a fan of sponsons because points spent on extra guns means less tanks;) The ranges match up pretty well, they cover some weaknesses and if the meltas are useless for a turn they're still pretty cheap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Eradicators with Multi-melta sponsons are a good combo. Normally I'm not a fan of sponsons because points spent on extra guns means less tanks;) The ranges match up pretty well, they cover some weaknesses and if the meltas are useless for a turn they're still pretty cheap. That's not a horrible idea. Between the Knight weapons and, say, a vanquisher Pask, an eridactor or two (points permitting) with MM (points, again) may be something to look into. Laying the 6/4 before the 7/2, to clear out as many bags of flesh as possible, is a good start. Compliments the TL-BC shots from the Knight, as needed, too. I mean 8/1. Again, not sleeping before posting. -_-; Stupid grave shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I went to the LGS to impulse shop for the Astra Mil aspect of the Knight House. They hadn't even restocked the Stormtroopers I picked up a few weeks ago. They still have the old Imperial Knights codex for sale. The only Guard tanks were the Hydra and the Manticore. Oh, and a Valk, if you care to include that. No IG selections beyond that. So, after being disappointed, as I was hoping to pick up some more Flesh Bags, I decided to look at Khorne stuff for my Nightlords, because I wanted to spend money. No Bloodthirster. One box of Bloodletters. I came planning to spend around $100. I left with 3 Vallejo paints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'm thinking 3 Knights with "Attached Retainers/MenAtArms" (AM Veterans or Tempestus) could be neato. If one goes the AM route they could have Rough Rider squires... Brettonian bits on House Terryn knights FTW Ohhhh, you could use the beautiful Perry Bros footknights!Not heroic scaled but if you don't mix and match it shouldn't be a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 The key is bring lists people think are weak!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 As far as I can tell, if I take Imperial Knights as my primary, and I ally MiliTemp, I cannot take a fortification. However, if I take Imperial Knights as my Primary and take a MiliTemp CAD, I can take a fortification, but I also HAVE to take a second Troop Choice from the Storm Troopers. Is this correct, or can my Knight Household take Fortifications in a fashion that I'm not seeing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 As far as I can tell, if I take Imperial Knights as my primary, and I ally MiliTemp, I cannot take a fortification. However, if I take Imperial Knights as my Primary and take a MiliTemp CAD, I can take a fortification, but I also HAVE to take a second Troop Choice from the Storm Troopers. Is this correct, or can my Knight Household take Fortifications in a fashion that I'm not seeing? I think this is correct. Though I am curious which fortification is of great benefit to the IK+MT army...? Seems like most of them don't offer much not already available. Void Shield Generator, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Purely an Aesthetic desire. Well, and a lack of desire to paint too many models. I was thinking keeping the Astramil around 20 guys, maybe less, but I have around 500 points to spend on the second detachment. That's where the Forts come in. An Imperial Defense Network or a Firestorm Redoubt were what I was considering. Here's 1780, no upgrades on the AstraMil: Baron Court LOW - 380 Castigator LOW - 475 Crusader w/Missiles LOW - 415 Acheron CAD HQ - 25 Commisar TR - 70 Storm Troopers TR - 70 Storm Troopers Fort - 325 Defense Network (Defense Line, Defense Emplacement, Bunker, 2x Quad-Icarus Vengeance Batteries) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Purely an Aesthetic desire. Well, and a lack of desire to paint too many models. I was thinking keeping the Astramil around 20 guys, maybe less, but I have around 500 points to spend on the second detachment. That's where the Forts come in. An Imperial Defense Network or a Firestorm Redoubt were what I was considering. I'd note that the fortification "networks" are banned in most events. ITC included, last I checked. I found the FSR to be a very bland model to paint - one with extremely limited options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I hope ITC revisits the Networks being that Micro-Formations are the way of the future. The FSR appeal to me is a place to hide the Squishy Stormtroopers, and provide Dual Quad Icarus for anti-fliers for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The FSR appeal to me is a place to hide the Squishy Stormtroopers, and provide Dual Quad Icarus for anti-fliers for me. I'd go with the Bastion for the stormtroopers over the FSR. Same protection and you get to use the Their BS (and some of their orders) with the built in-heavy bolters and top-mounted Icarus (quad or las). In my experience, FSR is lacking in this edition due to having to snap at ground targets. Those MT also have short range weapons, they really don't benefit much from the wide fire points (unless you intend to have your opponent come to you). The other, very viable note, is that the FSR is probably too small to provide cover for the Knights, while the Bastion could easily do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The ban on Fortification Networks has more to do with logistics and table space than game balance, so I don't see that getting revisited due to these other changes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 That sounds like excuses to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'd go with the Bastion for the stormtroopers over the FSR. Same protection and you get to use the Their BS (and some of their orders) with the built in-heavy bolters and top-mounted Icarus (quad or las). In my experience, FSR is lacking in this edition due to having to snap at ground targets. Those MT also have short range weapons, they really don't benefit much from the wide fire points (unless you intend to have your opponent come to you). The other, very viable note, is that the FSR is probably too small to provide cover for the Knights, while the Bastion could easily do it. That is a very fair point. And if I'm looking at running 2 squads of Tempestus with a Commie, One squad can be in the Bastion and the other could be on the roof. Do you know how many guys the roof holds? Agreed on the extra cover it would provide for my Crusader specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 That is a very fair point. And if I'm looking at running 2 squads of Tempestus with a Commie, One squad can be in the Bastion and the other could be on the roof. Do you know how many guys the roof holds? Agreed on the extra cover it would provide for my Crusader specifically. Roof holds more if opponent is more leient on how many models can sqeeze on. In that Anhilation game, Ork opponent crammed 10+ lootas onto the roof. Only game I've used frag grenades as a blast weapon to kill things.... we thought it was pretty funny. That game had lots of bastions on the table as terrain. It is notable that battlements are considered open terrain in 7th, so putting models on their side or hanging off is legal provided that doing so would be legal on other terrain pieces. Main thing is that cover and LoS is less impressive when your model is hanging off the side. I will note that the icarus weapon on top will limit space greatly. With our game, I had a dreadnought on top of a bastion and he had ample space. A icarus weapon would have made it impossible to place that 60mm base without hanging off a side. This is because the gun mounts in the dead center of the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 That sounds like excuses to me. I'm not sure about how I feel about its validity either, but since that was the rationale rather than power level, like I said, it's unlikely it will be revisited because of these new Detachment/Formation rulings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'm not sure about how I feel about its validity either, but since that was the rationale rather than power level, like I said, it's unlikely it will be revisited because of these new Detachment/Formation rulings. As an event coordinator it makes perfect sense. As some formations would require tables to be altered and put back together. To rely on the gamers to put back together. That can be troublesome. I think it is a lazy answer but I can think of some venues that would not have space nearby to store the terrain that a formation needed to move, so it is also practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_L Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is there a general consensus in your groups as to what points level it's "fair" to take an imperial knight ally? For example, I'm working on a Grey Knights army and I'd like to include the Knight Paladin - 1700pts, 1850, 2000 - what points level would it be reasonable for the other guy to have enough anti-armour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Anything over 1500 is probably fine. I'd fight one at any points level. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is there a general consensus in your groups as to what points level it's "fair" to take an imperial knight ally? Casual play? 1750pts. At that level, any army should have enough AT to challenge the knight. In a tournament or casual play with competitive players, maybe 1000pts. Maybe less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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