Meh, Crud. Mumble. Grrrr.

[splinx]

Umm. That's a pretty big series of assumptions that are not backed up by anything I've said in any of the what... five threads we have on AOS.

 

I have not been trumpeting AOS with no reservations. Things I have said:

- I have said that I want to play it more than I wanted to play fantasy for the last 20 years.

- I have encouraged people not to ditch their hard work and money off of a first glance and to get a couple games in first.

- I have stated my belief that this is probably more of a starter than a finished product and that I believe more is coming.

- I have stated that balance is probably coming from the community and that it will be better than what GW could do anyways.

- I have posted all the reliable leaks and rumors over here so people could keep educated on what's going on.

 

Really though, I have no dog in the fight. You want to throw your stuff in the heap and give up on it without playing a game? Feel free. I don't even play Fantasy yet.

If you ever wanna try a game Eben let me know! :)

[pretre]

If you ever wanna try a game Eben let me know! :)

I'm probably going to take you up on that soon.

[generalripphook]

So, in every gaming place I've been connected with, there was always a group of weird old dudes who would come in, once in a while, with their long beards and wild eyes, and play Napoleonics.  They shunned the other gamers who they viewed as children. They shunned other games they viewed as immature, preferring the "strategy" of moving blocks of infantry around, in a game system no one knew.  Everyone gave them a wide birth, and treated them like they were from Mars, or from deep in the basement.  

 

You have now become those dudes.  

 

In Bellingham we have a whole game store dedicated to them! 

[indytims]

So, in every gaming place I've been connected with, there was always a group of weird old dudes who would come in, once in a while, with their long beards and wild eyes, and play Napoleonics.  They shunned the other gamers who they viewed as children. They shunned other games they viewed as immature, preferring the "strategy" of moving blocks of infantry around, in a game system no one knew.  Everyone gave them a wide birth, and treated them like they were from Mars, or from deep in the basement.  

 

You have now become those dudes.  

 

What's really hilarious is, I USED to play Napoleonics and Ancients battles when I was in my 20's.

 

Now, I don't play them anymore.

 

I guess that makes me bass-ackwards!

[Guest Obscure Reference]

I saw a post somewhere that AoS is the best edition of 40k yet. No wonder the 40k players all like it. :p

 

I am with Raindog and Murphy's Lawyer. 8th until it dies. AoS feels like a slap in the face.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

What's really hilarious is, I USED to play Napoleonics and Ancients battles when I was in my 20's.

 

Now, I don't play them anymore.

 

I guess that makes me bass-ackwards!

The Benjamin Button of Wargames. He'll be playing Hero Clicks at 60 and AoS at 80.

 

(Yes yes, I just said it.)

[pretre]

I saw a post somewhere that AoS is the best edition of 40k yet. No wonder the 40k players all like it. :p

 

8th until it dies. AoS feels like a slap in the face.

Every statement here is either incorrect or hyperbole. Nice job! ;)

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Every statement here is either incorrect or hyperbole. Nice job! ;)

Well since this whole thread is based on opinions and relies on point of views I'd say he is not off. The Activations, Shooting Phase, Charging and Combat phase all play closer to 40k than Fantasy. That and all the new models look like 40K minis and you got what he is saying.

 

I agree with him aside from the fact 40K has more complexity and is more balanced for tournament and casual play. AoS pails to 40K and for Fantasy players that thought 40K was simplified.

[Brother Glacius]

I'm still waiting for Pretre to invest in the game himself. Lots of talk from someone who doesn't even play WFB.

[pretre]

I'm still waiting for Pretre to invest in the game himself. Lots of talk from someone who doesn't even play WFB.

I already bought the rules, they were free.

I own high elf and mortal chaos WFB armies.

 

Sooo... I've invested in the game pretty well, if you ask me. Or is there a dollar amount that makes you a 'real' investor in the game?

[Brother Glacius]

So you are now claiming previous purchases as investing in AoS? I will most happily call BS on that.

 

I will just wait and see how much you play AoS and whether or not you purchase AoS minis....that will be investing in the game.

[pretre]

So you are now claiming previous purchases as investing in AoS? I will most happily call BS on that.

 

I will just wait and see how much you play AoS and whether or not you purchase AoS minis....that will be investing in the game.

And how much have you invested in AoS?

[pretre]

I'm still waiting for Pretre to invest in the game himself. Lots of talk from someone who doesn't even play WFB.

Also, considering your later posts, I think this means you now equate AoS with WFB. Good to know.

[pretre]

I think we should have a new policy that you must show receipts for any game sub-forum you want to participate in. We could provide them to an Admin and they could give us access to the forums in question.

[savion47]

**MOD NOTE**

 

Petre and BroG:

Please continue this line of conversation in PMs.

[Nathanvoodoo]

Love

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Well since this is the right thread I will say that WHFB is now on Life Support and will only remain alive as long as the greater community keeps it alive. GW has made it clear they currently have no intention on balancing and fixing the issues with AoS and I don't see it living long with what it offers. I had really wanted the new Edition of WHFB to be more with an ability to play at skirmish level while still being able to maintain its ability to be played on a large scale. Also I didn't want to see old models being discontinued but now whole Armies will have most if not all their current models and units discontinued. There will be something that resembles the old armies but as a whole they are going to be completely different.

 

Well it was fun while it lasted now all we can do is watch as AoS struggles to find its place and see if GW wakes up and fixes its mistake before AoS becomes another Dreadfleet. I know the Vocal Minority doesn't want to admit it but GW did Jump the Shark here. This gimmick will not work if they don't but more time into rules writing, that is just common sense.

[fluger]

Let me ask a serious question here.  How many of us bought into this game because of solid rules?  Most beginners get grabbed by a cool miniature or art work or a story or something and they see people having fun and want that themselves.  

 

How many times have vets looked on as a newbie brings some half-assed army with a hodge podge of units with no cohesion and no chance to win?  We see this *all* the time.  So many people dump money into WHFB and 40k and don't ever get a good game because they bought models that have sucky rules.  

 

Now, I think the *idea* of AoS is solid, make a game that is simple and allows you to play with whatever models you want.  It's a great gateway game IMO at least in concept.  

 

That being said, I think the story and the models and the rules don't do it for me, but I'm willing to bet that quite a few people will find that it DOES work for them.  I'm not willing to say GW completely screwed up here, but I do think it's sad that they've given up trying to balance things at all.  

 

I've sat out 8th edition and I think that means I'm done with Fantasy from GW.  I think the next time I dip my toe into a Fantasy setting it will be with Kings of War.  I like the look of those rules a lot more.  

[Brother Glacius]

GW's not in the business of selling rules though. They want to sell models. 40K should be a shining example of that. They are now pumping out rules just to get you to buy more models.

 

AoS is like a dream come true for them. They can now build models, give them whatever rules they want, and not worry about balance at all. AoS is the perfect vehicle for GW. They want to sell you high priced models. GW puts out amazing miniatures. Can't take that away from them. The new skirmish format of AoS gives them lots of room to make dynamic models.

 

All they had to do, was make sure the rules were good enough to have fun with. And it seems like they succeeded. Unless they start pushing out crappy models, I don't see AoS failing for them.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

GW's not in the business of selling rules though. They want to sell models. 40K should be a shining example of that. They are now pumping out rules just to get you to buy more models.

 

AoS is like a dream come true for them. They can now build models, give them whatever rules they want, and not worry about balance at all. AoS is the perfect vehicle for GW. They want to sell you high priced models. GW puts out amazing miniatures. Can't take that away from them. The new skirmish format of AoS gives them lots of room to make dynamic models.

 

All they had to do, was make sure the rules were good enough to have fun with. And it seems like they succeeded. Unless they start pushing out crappy models, I don't see AoS failing for them.

If it looses support it will not succeed. This will be what the next year will be about, will AoS connect with players or will the new shine wear off and be left on the shelf? Sure right now it is selling but that is because it is Brand New and from GW, GW fans jump for new models all the time, but what about in four or five months as everyone understands and have tested out the rules? Will it still be good then?

 

That is how I am looking at it. We will have to wait and see if this gamble pays off, but don't assume that since it is GW it will succeed. If you have no way to make a balanced game it will not last.

[Brother Glacius]

I don't think AoS will ever be good, not at least in the way that many WFB players will want it to be. It will be sufficient though to support the models that GW pumps out. I think GW's plan is to keep pushing new models very frequently...so you don't ever lose that "its new!" feeling from the players.

[KJTW]

Maybe you guys should listen to the lastest Dwellers Below podcast. Also, what's the point of proclaiming doom over and over. Once should suffice.

 

My option on AoS falls in line with the Dwellers.

[pretre]

Also, what's the point of proclaiming doom over and over. Once should suffice.

 

Let's sing the doom song!

 

[Romes]

Maybe you guys should listen to the lastest Dwellers Below podcast. Also, what's the point of proclaiming doom over and over. Once should suffice.

 

My option on AoS falls in line with the Dwellers.

 

 

I think because they keep being told the doom isn't there.

 

People invested a lot of money and energy into 8th, and it's been killed off. The frustration with AoS is not about the game itself, it's easy to not play a game you don't like, it's that it is the replacement for 8th. In that role, to many people, AoS is unacceptable, and so they have lost something of value in their lives.

 

When you've put 100s of hours into something and feel like it's been taken from you, it's not unreasonable to call "doom", and when others tell you, "no it's fine, stop complaining"  it's not unreasonable to repeat yourself. From your perspective, someone hurt you, and other people are telling you you're wrong to think that.

 

To the doomsayers: I'm giving AoS a chance. I've done a lot of gaming, I'm a competitive gamer, I tend to pick up games quickly, and I am confidant that i have not yet played enough games of AoS to determine if it is sufficiently strategically deep to hold my interest. If you've already come to that conclusion, I would tell you that, in my opinion, you are most likely jumping the gun.

 

Will I continue playing it indefinitely without a balance system? No. I like tournaments, to me, meaningful tournaments don't exist without an attempt at balance.  But I'll give it until the end of the year to see what 3rd party balance system comes out. 

 

I might decide it's not what I want to do, but I don't know that yet, and I suspect that a lot of people who have made up their mind have done it without giving the game a fair shot.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I think because they keep being told the doom isn't there.

 

People invested a lot of money and energy into 8th, and it's been killed off. The frustration with AoS is not about the game itself, it's easy to not play a game you don't like, it's that it is the replacement for 8th. In that role, to many people, AoS is unacceptable, and so they have lost something of value in their lives.

 

When you've put 100s of hours into something and feel like it's been taken from you, it's not unreasonable to call "doom", and when others tell you, "no it's fine, stop complaining" it's not unreasonable to repeat yourself. From your perspective, someone hurt you, and other people are telling you you're wrong to think that.

 

To the doomsayers: I'm giving AoS a chance. I've done a lot of gaming, I'm a competitive gamer, I tend to pick up games quickly, and I am confidant that i have not yet played enough games of AoS to determine if it is sufficiently strategically deep to hold my interest. If you've already come to that conclusion, I would tell you that, in my opinion, you are most likely jumping the gun.

 

Will I continue playing it indefinitely without a balance system? No. I like tournaments, to me, meaningful tournaments don't exist without an attempt at balance. But I'll give it until the end of the year to see what 3rd party balance system comes out.

 

I might decide it's not what I want to do, but I don't know that yet, and I suspect that a lot of people who have made up their mind have done it without giving the game a fair shot.

I want to like the Game because it is the Replacement for WHFB and want to try it but will not do it without some sort of system to give it balance. I keep coming back here because I want to hear some good news that puts my feelings of disappointment to rest. And yes, it is because I have a large collection of models that suddenly lost most of their value.

 

If something changes and they make AoS or whatever a system that is not so lacking in rules I will give it a go. But I feel like many others in that AoS is not very playable and now I had one of my favorite hobby games discontinued.

 

I know that there are those who want to give this game praise but they are also trying to shame any with dissent out of the forums.

 

Again I really want something good to come from this but if it stays with the rules as is I just lost out on my favorite game, $1000+ on models and hundreds of hour putting them together. And I know there are many who have done Way more than me.

 

So if you guys want to shame the Nay-Sayers go for it, but our disappointment is genuine and founded on more reasons than new comers to AoS have for shaming us. You haven't invested as much into AoS as we have WHFB. And this is also a thread to show our disappointment too, so I will take my time somewhere else I guess.