GW's pricing of AoS

[Brother Glacius]

So I was at GG yesterday and saw some of the new AoS stuff. I just had to laugh. $40 for a dude and his dog? or a dice cup and 8 dice? $58 for two doorways? GW is just blowing the lid of the pricing right out of the gate. Who is going to be able to afford this new game? You have to hand it to them, when they make a decision, they really follow through.

 

Oh, and the guys at GG did say that the fantasy line is going to stay intact as far as they know. Books for the old game are gone...but models should be sticking around for a while. But I'll admit, I bought the Empire army box they had there because quite honestly, I wanted to make sure I got the models I wanted before they are gone...or before their pricing follows the rest of AoS.

[Steel Angel]

Shrug this is Ordo don't think we have ever been restricted to just GW figures.

[Nathanvoodoo]

Ummmm...

 

The AoS box is a great value- and beyond that I'd say GW has ALWAYS had ridiculous pricing.

 

If anyone wants to trade me for half of my AoS box I'll have a rather alrge viable sized army right there- for the price of a 1 battle box.

 

You aren't really stating anything new. Greasus Goldtooth for 57.75!?! Lord Kroak for 49.50?!?

 

They have always had stupid over the top prices. They also have the best models and wonderful kits.

[Threejacks]

Their prices are higher than a Giraffe`s Ass on everything they sell and as Nathan stated the AoS box is a great value.But that's just business,you get the starter box value then you have to start putting out to stay in the game.

 

I picked up the Realm Gates box yesterday along with the Lord Castellant,and yes I did indeed get fisted,knew I would.But I also picked up my new box of Liberators off one of the discount houses on ebay for 41.00 and free shipping:) so theres that route if you can wait for delivery(sometimes I just cant).

[rudra34]

*shrug*  The new sigmarz are the same size and cost as 40k terminators.  No real shock there.   Is it too much?  Yes.  Is it more than other, similar models?  Nope.

 

 

Besides, it's not news to anyone that GW charges out the ass. 

[indytims]

Ummmm...

 

The AoS box is a great value- and beyond that I'd say GW has ALWAYS had ridiculous pricing.

 

...

 

They have always had stupid over the top prices. They also have the best models and wonderful kits.

 

There was a time, many moons ago, when their stuff was actually incredibly reasonably priced. The young-folk here call those days 'The 80's'. Yet with popularity and demand, GW has been taught that they can price as they please.

 

I am like RCN now... I get my GW fix either by trading, or buying used, eBay, or a discounter. BUT, if there is something I absolutely can't wait to get my hands on, I'll pay full-price. And I would never, ever order direct unless it's something I -must- have that they only sell direct... and I can't remember that ever happening.

 

As long as people keep paying $10 for a single plastic dude, GW is gonna keep charging that... -and- pushing up gently to see where the sky is. :(

 

-Tim

[Burk]

"All money is a matter of belief."  - Adam Smith

[Burk]

“It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”
― Murray N. Rothbard

[tombking]

There was a time, many moons ago, when their stuff was actually incredibly reasonably priced. The young-folk here call those days 'The 80's'. Yet with popularity and demand, GW has been taught that they can price as they please.

*sigh* NO! Just No. I know cause I was teen then, and damn near all my income was disposable. Sure it was $30 for 30 plastic marines that were basically not that nice compared to the metal and those were about $6 for 3, which means $18 for a squad and that was a lot of money then. Inflation calculator says $18 in 1987 round up to $38 now. $40 for base 10 marines tac squad per what I just looked up on the GW website, and those are worlds better than the metal sculpts of then, meh whatevs . It only feels expensive to me now because I have such a backlog and a lot less disposable income right now. 

 

The other companies that offer the same quality of models are not cheaper per model. They are only 'cheaper' because of lower model count for an army supposedly as last I looked the Warmachine tables had quite a few models per side on them.

 

What does a night out at the movies cost you? $13 to $18 a ticket depending, and if you want popcorn and a drink? What does dinner out cost if going somewhere half decent and not mcfood?

 

Sorry it isn't any more or less expensive than it used to be and the model quality is absolutely amazing compared to what it used to be. What has changed is unless you are job hopping consistently you probably have not had a raise in 10 years. Incomes are flat and inflation isn't. We just remember being able to afford those toys but we don't remember we didn't have rent/mortgage, utility bills, food, replacing the roof on the house, children, etc, etc as well.

 

OBLIG: get off my lawn?

[dashneeb]

“It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”

― Murray N. Rothbard

 

If you were to take all the economists in the world and line them end to end, they'd still never reach a conclusion.

[indytims]

*sigh* NO! Just No. I know cause I was teen then, and damn near all my income was disposable. Sure it was $30 for 30 plastic marines that were basically not that nice compared to the metal and those were about $6 for 3, which means $18 for a squad and that was a lot of money then. Inflation calculator says $18 in 1987 round up to $38 now. $40 for base 10 marines tac squad per what I just looked up on the GW website, and those are worlds better than the metal sculpts of then, meh whatevs . It only feels expensive to me now because I have such a backlog and a lot less disposable income right now. 

 

The other companies that offer the same quality of models are not cheaper per model. They are only 'cheaper' because of lower model count for an army supposedly as last I looked the Warmachine tables had quite a few models per side on them.

 

What does a night out at the movies cost you? $13 to $18 a ticket depending, and if you want popcorn and a drink? What does dinner out cost if going somewhere half decent and not mcfood?

 

Sorry it isn't any more or less expensive than it used to be and the model quality is absolutely amazing compared to what it used to be. What has changed is unless you are job hopping consistently you probably have not had a raise in 10 years. Incomes are flat and inflation isn't. We just remember being able to afford those toys but we don't remember we didn't have rent/mortgage, utility bills, food, replacing the roof on the house, children, etc, etc as well.

 

OBLIG: get off my lawn?

 

Your argument might hold more water for a some parts of their line, but it certainly doesn't across the entire catalog. I was not a teen when I first started, and I remember things a -little- differently than you do. I specifically remember buying my first Eldar Dreadnought (now a Wraithlord) for $14.99. Today's cost? $46. That's more than 3x the cost - which doesn't hold up to your math. And that dread was -metal-.

 

My first dark elf regiment, 12 metal warriors (including banner and champ) - $19.95. Today? $50 for 10. And again, mine were -metal-, and looking at them now, they have aged pretty well (but that's subjective, of course).

I am fairly certain Space Marine Land Raiders didn't cost nearly $40 back then (My first was $29.95), and Rhinos didn't cost $20 -each-.

Not sure what Terminators cost back then... using your math, $5 each? I admit I got mine from Space Hulk. :)

And let's not even talk about primer and paints. ;)

 

I think it's a bit naive to think GW has just been 'following inflation'. On some specific packages it might look like it, but there's a lot of the line that has seen a fair bit more than 2x price-hike - even after the switch to plastics, which are -supposed- to make them even -cheaper- to produce, and definitely cheaper to ship. Of course, GW -rarely- passes on that savings to the consumer (i.e. Though on Wraithguard they did, thankfully, as well as a few other selections).

 

Not sure what your mention of movie tickets has to do with anything. If you want to use -that- as a comparison, you have to look at the big picture: Going to see 'Antman' was a lot of fun for my wife and I, about as much fun as a game of 40K, for about the same length of time. The movie cost us $20 ($10 a ticket in the evening, no concessions, no IMAX or 3D). That game of 40K cost me -several- hundred dollars. ;)   Obviously, the more I play 40k, the more 'value' I get out of the figs, while I am being pounded by the theater for $20 a pop each time I go. But if you're trying to compare entertainment value per dollar - this is definitely not a legitimate comparison.

 

It's -quite- a bit more expensive now to play these games. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. The 'quality' of each model is in the eye of the beholder, of course, and is not really relevant anyway when it comes down to opening your wallet - except that you might be more inclined to open it, if the fig appeals to you asethetically. Income for many folks is indeed flat or nearly so, and often they have -less- disposable income. As such, getting into games which have higher entry-level costs is becoming harder - and there's no amount of sugar-coating that's going to change that fact. How many companies have responded to that by offering free rules/army lists? Heck, GW just jumped into that end of the pool themselves. ;)

 

Figwise, AoS is -supposed- to have a 'cheaper' entry point... and it does... if you want to play with 10 guys on your side of the table.

 

-Tim

[Prophecy]

His argument is valid as I was given the choice of 40k or Warzone. 40k was 50% more even in the early 90's. I chose Warzone...

[indytims]

His argument is valid as I was given the choice of 40k or Warzone. 40k was 50% more even in the early 90's. I chose Warzone...

 

I still have -all- my Brotherhood figures. Probably the only army I ever painted -entirely- by myself. Another awesome game ruined by mismanagement - several times over. :( I always felt Warzone was a superior game to 40K (any edition), but obviously I was in the minority. ;)

[KlawKnee]

Models are reasonable IMHO, paints and accessories on the other hand..

Combat ruler thirty, gold paint..

[tombking]

Your argument might hold more water for a some parts of their line, but it certainly doesn't across the entire catalog. I was not a teen when I first started, and I remember things a -little- differently than you do. I specifically remember buying my first Eldar Dreadnought (now a Wraithlord) for $14.99. Today's cost? $46. That's more than 3x the cost - which doesn't hold up to your math. And that dread was -metal-.

And how much nicer and how many more options do you have for the plastic Wraithlord?  It is also a model worlds easier to customize and if you build it right you can have one model with several weapon options which you didn't get to do so easily with the metal.  I dunno. Thats like comparing the original chuck and eddy dreadnaughts to a modern one. Also one thing I have always done as I just like plastic kits in general, the prices on their kits are about par with the nice side of them.

How much nicer is a modern Rhino kit or Landraider Kit?

 

 

 

Not sure what Terminators cost back then... using your math, $5 each? 

$3 and they were smaller and the blister pack ones look like crap compared to the current ones. I know as I still have them. When I bought the LEAD box of 8 it was $30 which makes it about par with the current kit and the current kit again is so much nicer and has way more options for builds.

 

The things is their minis were really great compared to the market at the time and were near twice what everything else cost then. THEY WERE EXPENSIVE THEN. There were lots of cheaper options at that time but they were not near as nice in the sculpts.

 

 

 

Not sure what your mention of movie tickets has to do with anything. 

It is your entertainment budget, how much fun do you get out of the cost of dinner and a movie? How quick is that over with? How much fun do you get out of building a unit of Dark Elves and using them on the table over and over again? We think nothing of dropping $100 for an evening out but then go oh noes my models cost too much? This all entertainment/fun money. Heck I consider myself lucky that I can actually afford it if I budget right in the first place.

 

 

 

 

Figwise, AoS is -supposed- to have a 'cheaper' entry point... and it does... if you want to play with 10 guys on your side of the table.

 

And this is the same reason Warmahordes, Infinity, etc are cheaper. Those models per figure are not really any cheaper than GWs.

[AgentP]

I'm always perplexed by threads complaining about the price of a luxury good. I wonder if threads like this exist in forums dedicated to Steinway pianos, BMW sports cars, audiophile equipment, etc.

[indytims]

And how much nicer and how many more options do you have for the plastic Wraithlord?  It is also a model worlds easier to customize and if you build it right you can have one model with several weapon options which you didn't get to do so easily with the metal.  I dunno. Thats like comparing the original chuck and eddy dreadnaughts to a modern one. Also one thing I have always done as I just like plastic kits in general, the prices on their kits are about par with the nice side of them.

How much nicer is a modern Rhino kit or Landraider Kit?

 

How much 'nicer' or not they are, is irrelevant, because it's a subjective distinction. Cost is -not- subjective. Is the new Wraithlord nicer? To me, yes. But is it 3x nicer? I don't think so. But to Joe Bob down the road, the new one is TEN times nicer, and to Bill the Old-timer, the newer model is crap. It's one of the reasons I stopped collecting Dark Elves - the new aesthetic was going in a direction I didn't like - AND it was costing me more? No thanks. Just like some folks prefer the plastic over the metal, and some folks prefer metal over plastic. And plastics are -supposed- to be cheaper.

 

 

"The things is their minis were really great compared to the market at the time and were near twice what everything else cost then. THEY WERE EXPENSIVE THEN. There were lots of cheaper options at that time but they were not near as nice in the sculpts."

 

Again, that's subjective. And of course back then, GW had very, very few competitors. RAFM/Grenadier/Ral Partha? They really catered to a different segment than GW. Target/Heartbreaker was really the first company to truly compete head-to-head with GW (that I recall, anyway), on any meaningful level. They had a superior rules-set, but inferior figs, though a much lower price-entry point. They were -just- getting their figs to GW level of quality (the last few runs were every bit as good as GW metals at the time, in my opinion), but then imploded. Almost any company going against the established brand has a pretty huge uphill battle, of course. Obviously GW was 'expensive' then - but I (and many others) also had more disposable income.

 

There's a reason GW's sales are waning and continue to hemorrhage the past few years - and it's not because their figs are awesome.

 

 

"It is your entertainment budget, how much fun do you get out of the cost of dinner and a movie? How quick is that over with? How much fun do you get out of building a unit of Dark Elves and using them on the table over and over again? We think nothing of dropping $100 for an evening out but then go oh noes my models cost too much? This all entertainment/fun money. Heck I consider myself lucky that I can actually afford it if I budget right in the first place."

 

Dinner and movie = 3-4 hours of fun. One game of 40k = 3-4 hours of fun. I'm happily married, so the dinner and movie 'win out' every time as far as 'fun factor' goes (unless the movie absolutely sucks - then again, we've all had games of whatever that really weren't all that fun either, so, it can go both ways). Obviously, GW isn't specifically targeting married males over 40. ;) But they -are- targeting males in a younger segment who are still old enough to think about dating, etc. Obviously this is another subjective area, since I am -sure- there are guys who think the fun of assembling/painting/playing is far more fun than dating. But generally speaking, even going to a movie/dinner by myself, the 'fun' level is on par to a game of 40K, and I have to invest a good chunk of money in order to play that game. That's why it's not really a good comparison.

 

It -is- entertainment money, though, and through the recession statistics showed that 'entertainment' expense was usually the first category to be cut or nearly eliminated by the average family.... yet, GW trudged ahead with their regular increases like nothing was going on in the world, and as usual, the smaller companies generally follow suit.

 

 

"And this is the same reason Warmahordes, Infinity, etc are cheaper. Those models per figure are not really any cheaper than GWs."

 

You're right, sometimes they -aren't- cheaper... but usually, I think they are.

 

Dwarf Warriors:

 

GW (16 figs) - $35

Mantic (20 figs) - $25

 

 

Dwarf Elites:

 

GW (10 figs) - $50

Mantic (20 figs) - $30

 

 

Dwarf Characters:

 

Foot:

 

GW - $15-$21

Mantic - $10

 

Mounted:

 

GW - $30-$45

Mantic - $20

 

Artillery:

 

Cannon with 3/Crew

GW - $25-$40

Mantic - $25 (2 cannons, 4 crew)

 

And arguably, Mantic's look nicer. I was pricing the two, thinking of building a dwarf force for AoS/KoW, but to be honest, I think I will start with my LotR dwarves as they look nicer than either of those options, anyway (to me). :)

 

Comparing to Infinity, Malifaux, and those types of games - you don't need nearly as many minis to play a 'regular' game. Then again, GW is trying to remove the 'illusion' of comparison by removing points values altogether. A standard 300 points of Infinity is drastically cheaper than a standard 2k points of Empire. So even if the figs are equivalent in price in some cases, you're still spending far more.

 

If it is 'worth it' or not, is purely up to the person holding the wallet. :)

 

I still enjoy GW games. I have played AoS and will continue to play it... with all the figs I've already bought. But if I were just starting today? No way would I touch AoS, at least not at retail. There's just too many -good- quality competitors out there right now, and getting into those games is usually cheaper, with far cleaner rules.

 

-Tim

[indytims]

I'm always perplexed by threads complaining about the price of a luxury good. I wonder if threads like this exist in forums dedicated to Steinway pianos, BMW sports cars, audiophile equipment, etc.

 

I have to disagree that GW is a 'luxury good' in the same category as a BMW. That's a pretty silly comparison. You don't see many 15 year olds out buying BMWs. ;)

[Prophecy]

I still have -all- my Brotherhood figures. Probably the only army I ever painted -entirely- by myself. Another awesome game ruined by mismanagement - several times over. :( I always felt Warzone was a superior game to 40K (any edition), but obviously I was in the minority. ;)

 

I really believe if you used the old paperback big book that came out right before the reboot and mixed it with the new models the game would be awesome. I was a Mishima player and actually traded them all to a friend in February. They were my very first models and I can just remember staring at blisters of Warzone and 40k. In Warzone every model really matters and the squad based combat is very much the life and death of your force. 40k had so much to choose from but the editions (as always) can breathe life or crush certain kits/units.

[tombking]

 

 

Dinner and movie = 3-4 hours of fun. One game of 40k = 3-4 hours of fun

Cost of dinner and movie 3-4 hours of fun, over and done with to do again, cost $$$ again.

Cost of new unit for WFB/AoS/40k, sameish and you can play with it over and over and over and over. This is what I am getting at. We don't blink at spending this much for a date but then balk at spending the same on something that will last longer and give as much or more enjoyment for a hobby.

[Theredepic]

Its always been a pricey game, and the models were almost always quite nice. The issue now is that you need so much more to actually play the game.

 

In the mid-90's, two tactical squads, 5 terminators, 5 scouts, 5 Assault marines, a razorback/rhino and a Captain used to be a nice sizeable force for an enjoyable game, now that's a mere pittance for what you need to play. When you go to a game shop and there are 8-12 vehicles on the board, or 200+ models on a 6x4" table, I think GW has done an excellent job of selling models to a player base that expects to drop a mortgage payment to play their game.

 

If you don't like the model prices, or the rules, or the player base (Or a combination thereof), don't play. I made that decision 5 years ago, couldn't be happier.

[Don't Panic]

i think whats more frustrating is you DO dump this ton of money/time into a game and then they pull the rug under the game and replace it with something having a pretty different appeal to another crowd of people(such as 40k-esque models and fun-time kiddo ruleset).

[tombking]

i think whats more frustrating is you DO dump this ton of money/time into a game and then they pull the rug under the game and replace it with something having a pretty different appeal to another crowd of people(such as 40k-esque models and fun-time kiddo ruleset).

Now on that I got, well nothing. As far as the whole dropping WFB for AoS, well I am stumped.

[indytims]

Cost of dinner and movie 3-4 hours of fun, over and done with to do again, cost $$$ again.

Cost of new unit for WFB/AoS/40k, sameish and you can play with it over and over and over and over. This is what I am getting at. We don't blink at spending this much for a date but then balk at spending the same on something that will last longer and give as much or more enjoyment for a hobby.

 

Yep. As I mentioned in my first response, -eventually- you play enough 40K games to make up the cost of the army... but it still requires a pretty hefty investment to start. AoS is slightly better because the rules/army lists are free (so far).

 

Per Marketingcharts.com, the average American sees 5 movies a year. For my wife and I, that's about $20 a movie total (sometimes a little more with a drink, sometimes a little less with a matinee) plus $20 for dinner. So about $40 a night, or $200 a year.

 

$200 of 40K figs - at cost - ain't gonna get me enough to really do much, or not much variety - not to mention the $75 needed for the rules, and all the other necessities. Oh, you mentioned assembling and painting? Those paints have gone over $4 -each- now, and unlike your minis they are consumed over time. And god forbid someone is silly enough to buy GW glue, tools, or primer. ;)

 

And that's just to -get started-.

 

Once I spend enough $ to get an 1850 point army together, assembled, painted, etc, then I start 'earning back my investment' by pushing them around a table. Sure, for some people, painting is the more important aspect than playing - but I've witnessed enough 'forum brawls' over that subject, so I won't go there. ;) Either way, whether you're a painter or a player, you gotta have the tools, and you gotta buy the base product.

 

For a more equitable comparison, you might compare the costs associated with building an 'average' Warmahordes force vs. an AoS force. Honestly, I left Warmahordes behind years ago and haven't looked back, so no idea what their costs are like now, if rules are free, if they make metal or plastics, etc.

 

But if you'd suggest that GW is the 'Ferrari' of the wargaming world, and companies like PP, Wyrd, Mantic, Battlefront, etc, are more like the 'Mustangs and Camaros' of the wargaming world, hence the difference in price, I could certainly understand that view, though I would also suggest that is far less accurate now than in the past.

 

Ultimately, the one thing the two activities have in common is that we're paying for an 'experience', whether it's watching a movie - or playing a game of 40K, AoS, or whatever. How much 'fun' you have is subjective. Some of the best dates I've had at the movies were every bit the enjoyable experiences as some of my most fun 40K games I've played. Each generally requires a cash outlay to 'experience'. One is far cheaper - but with repetitive costs. The other requires a more sizable investment, but at a certain point there doesn't -need- to be a continued outlay of $. Which is 'better' is entirely up to the person buying. :)

 

-Tim

[tombking]

 

 

For my wife and I, that's about $20 a movie total (sometimes a little more with a drink, sometimes a little less with a matinee) plus $20 for dinner. So about $40 a night

Where the hell are you going for dinner that is $20 for two? Anywhere date worthy and I am looking at $60 for two people minimum.

EDIT heck $20 is just a little more than the booze bill if we are having drinks.