orkdork Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 What's wrong with characters charging out of units? I understand not wanting them used as diverters but whta with taking on an enemy head on? At present, there are many builds that can solo units very reliably. This might all be mitigated by our challenge and armor save reroll fixes, so may not be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 BTW, we fully expect that if this is adopted by Ordo, the name will probably change :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 maybe. Skirmishers - do these guys redirect chargers, or do they align to chargers? Technically, they have no ranks. Look Out Sir vs spells - does this include single target spells that were designed to pick out characters? Characters - Does a character that hides within his unit still benefit the unit? I'm just thinking that BSB's are all going to seem very unheroic as they hide within the unit since it is too easy to dogpile him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 On a scale of Age of Sigmar to Warmachine, how competitive are you trying to make this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 maybe. Skirmishers - do these guys redirect chargers, or do they align to chargers? Technically, they have no ranks. Look Out Sir vs spells - does this include single target spells that were designed to pick out characters? Characters - Does a character that hides within his unit still benefit the unit? I'm just thinking that BSB's are all going to seem very unheroic as they hide within the unit since it is too easy to dogpile him. At present, skirmisher 'ranks' would be counted toward whether they align, so they'd 'divert' if sufficiently large. Look out sir vs spells would be for template and unit affecting spells. So not stuff like 'eadbutt. "protected" characters would still benefit units. As far as 'too easy to dogpile', I need math shown before I'll believe that is the case. Remember that essentially only two files may attack a character in a unit with 3/5+ RnF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 On a scale of Age of Sigmar to Warmachine, how competitive are you trying to make this? Not sure yet! I think the target is "ideal fit for the OFCC". That is the event we really most care about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Not sure I'm crazy about the character/unit rules. Why not simply state that a character can't charge out of a unit? If you want your solo character rampaging, then they have to stay out of a unit, thus making them vulnerable to sniping. If you want the protection of a unit, then your character must stay with that unit. If the character wishes to leave the unit, that is only done in the remaining move phase. That stops them from charging out. I really don't like forcing characters into units, especially when you have presented rules to allow some sort of screening due to LOS restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 @BroG We may have enough of the issues addressed via overkill reduction, AS reroll limitations and allowing the full rank to fight to limit the efficacy of lone cav characters charging out of units. We still need to address diverters. Play one game against my OnG and you'll see why. I can block up most an entire battle line for less than 100 pts. per turn, and you can't shoot my diverters, because they have cover from their units until they zoom out (with 18" movement and fast cav feigned flight) and ruin your fun. Yet another option is that hero characters must stay in units, while lords are free to roam. We need more playtest games for these, though! My house is in transition (exterior painting and interior flooring all at once like a bunch of n00bs), so my playtest setup won't be back online for another week :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 So I'm wondering whether anyone has other "top issues" that we haven't addressed? It's interesting to me what different players find most "broken" with the current edition. I know we've discussed this in other threads, but given the items we've hit with BroHammer, I'm curious if there are one or two more things we could address to get other Ordites more excited to play this version! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I say all the incantations right, but there are still enemies standing after I cast Curse of the Horned Rat. Any changes you can make to fix that? It's pretty annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I say all the incantations right, but there are still enemies standing after I cast Curse of the Horned Rat. Any changes you can make to fix that? It's pretty annoying. I'm thinking maybe "Whenever Skaven attempt to cast Curse of the Horned Rat, roll D6. On a 2+, remove all enemy models from play, with no saves of any kind." 2+ might be a bit off, I'll have to run a simulation. It might be that 3+ is a better number. TBD. What do you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm a bit miffed at the loss of the EoT units. There are some really interesting things there....that I spent money on. :) So losing those is not fun. And I still think miscasts needs some work. And you need to get rid of things like "no save of any kind" as that is rubbish. You Bros need to play some games and do a nice vidcast of them. That always grabs people's attention. If its on the internet, it must be true! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm thinking maybe "Whenever Skaven attempt to cast Curse of the Horned Rat, roll D6. On a 2+, remove all enemy models from play, with no saves of any kind." 2+ might be a bit off, I'll have to run a simulation. It might be that 3+ is a better number. TBD. What do you think? 2+?? What do you take me for, a night goblin? We Skaven are not creatures of chance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbitron Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm thinking maybe "Whenever Skaven attempt to cast Curse of the Horned Rat, roll D6. On a 2+, remove all enemy models from play, with no saves of any kind." 2+ might be a bit off, I'll have to run a simulation. It might be that 3+ is a better number. TBD. What do you think? It's Skaven... the result of rolling a 1 on something that big needs to be as bad or even worse than a success. So, on a 2+ all enemy models are removed, on a 1, all Skaven models are removed from play. And the next time you play, roll a d6 for each unit, on a roll of a 1, the unit is still dead from the previous game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm a bit miffed at the loss of the EoT units. There are some really interesting things there....that I spent money on. :) So losing those is not fun. Totally agree here. I thought only GW was mean enough to render actual current models obsolete and unusable? : :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm a bit miffed at the loss of the EoT units. There are some really interesting things there....that I spent money on. :) So losing those is not fun. Totally agree here. I thought only GW was mean enough to render actual current models obsolete and unusable? : :( I feel you on losing End Times units. I built and bought an entire army based on Legions rules. However that doesn't do anything to address the issue of how to apply Swedish Comp values to End Times. Without Comp values for those lists and units, it's a choice between Swedish Comp and End Times, pick one or the other. I personally think SC does far, far more to improve the game than ET does. So to me a choice between the two is easy. Any suggestions? PS: don't forget those models can almost all be used as other units! We're not bound to GW's definition of "WYSIWYG" because hey, GW canceled WFB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Here's a suggestion: Since you are adding/subtracting/changing some of the core rules of the game, what makes it so hard to add Swedish values for end times units and armies? They exist in the universe at this point and people own and want to play with them. Seems silly to throw them out completely when you are in control of the games core. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm pretty sure that so many changes have been made that Swedish is invalid anyway. Swedish wasn't perfect to begin with, so I say just discard it and play the game as you have modified it. You've worked hard to simplify certain parts of the game. Why not simplify the army construction phase :) NB: I love Swedish. I would trade the extra math practice for a fun game any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted July 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Well okay, rudra I should have clarified: I know "just make up SC values" is possible :) The trick is coming up with reasonably close values.I've seen several attempts, and I haven't seen anything close to a reasonable version of actual Comp numbers for End Times armies. I've spent some time looking at how to Comp score ET stuff. The issue is that, because of the huge size of the lists, and the combination of army-wide rules, the interplay between the units and special rules makes Comping them very very difficult.So a suggestion on how to actually come up with reasonable Comp scores, is what I meant! Like for example, "Throw out the new army lists, throw out the named characters, and just score the new units, dropping them into Army Books that already exist." But that seems like a lot of work just to be able to use ET rules for models that you can use existing Army Book rules for. But something like that?@valourunbound: I don't think we've affected balance enough to discard SC. Most of the rules are cleanup for terrain, movement, charging, and base-to-base stuff that affects everyone and fixes broken mechanics like reforms and clipping. There are a few that affect balance, true. Making steadfast disruptable affects balance (hordes are a little worse) as does changing miscast (game breaking spells are a little worse), and diverter changes (units like single sabretusks are a little worse). But I'm not convinced that any of these adjustments will make SC unusable. If so, we'd want to revisit those changes, as SC is a necessity at this point IMO. Maybe we should mark which rules have a substantial affect on unit-to-unit balance, so that those rules can be optional in a Comp'd event? Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlawKnee Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I know i was a little sad Isabella didn't stay as a nurgle agent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.