ninefinger Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Curious how the Master of Blades skill interacts with parry being a straight 6+? Not that being able to parry twice with a re-roll isn't already good enough, just wondering how the "parries on a tie or better" part would work. I think my thought is bump it up to a 5+ with that skill. I realize the math is pretty fuzzy, but its only against one incoming hit, so hopefully not too overpowered. Fits the theme of dwarf skills making them even hardier. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewgeddon Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I think my thought is bump it up to a 5+ with that skill. I realize the math is pretty fuzzy, but its only against one incoming hit, so hopefully not too overpowered. Fits the theme of dwarf skills making them even hardier. Thoughts? That seems about right. A constant 5+ seems a fair balance, as under the "regular" rules they would have chances at parrying stuff on 3+s / 4+s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 What does 'master of blades' do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 considering dwarfs had 'shieldwall' in 8th which gives them a 5+ parry i think it fits fine... the original did seem a little too strong imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 What does 'master of blades' do? awesome sauce. but its based on the original parry so its a little wonky in our situation where we just changed it to a 6++. I just tried to make a Dwarf warband, and I feel naked. Only 7 models??? (It doesn't help that I don't own any slayer models) No self-respecting Skaven warlord would ever set foot on the battlefield with less than 21 models. those 7 models just need to shoot 3 of your rats off and kill 2 in combat and ta-da roll your cute rat leadership! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewgeddon Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 What does 'master of blades' do? Master of Blades: This Dwarf’s martial skills surpass those of a normal warrior; he has fought unscathed against hordes of Orcs and Goblins. When using a weapon that has a Parry special rule, this hero parries successfully if he beats or matches his opponents highest ‘to hit’ roll, not just if he beats the roll. In addition, if this warrior is using two weapons that have the Parry special rule, he is allowed to parry two attacks (if his two dice match or beat the two highest Attack dice against him) instead of the normal maximum of one. Note that if this Dwarf has two Dwarf axes (as detailed above) he can re-roll any failed parries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 those 7 models just need to shoot 3 of your rats off and kill 2 in combat and ta-da roll your cute rat leadership! False! With 21 models you have to kill 6! P.S. I'm disappointing no one noticed that Skaven are capped at 20 models. What can I say, I'm a cheating bastard rat. Just like rolling a 13 on 2d6 to win the game :) P.S.S. I'll run the math on parry, etc. Is the goal to nerf parry or keep the same numbers? Furthermore, with Master of Blades, are we looking for a nerf or an equivalent buff (e.g. 15% better parry)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninefinger Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 The goal with parry was to simplify the rule. The traditional problems with the way the old way worked revolved around no benefit for higher WS vs Lower, and just being a little clunky. I don't really care whether the math works out the same, more just whether adjusting master of blades in that way would be OP I'm disappointed you haven't realized how low a Ld 5 is on the giant rats. Just wait until you face undead. No charge will get through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 P.S. I'm disappointing no one noticed that Skaven are capped at 20 models. Of course-course I noticed... but as a fellow rat, I was sitting in the corner waiting for you to get away with it, so then -I- could get away with it! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Dead-dead things are scary! I'll just let you charge me. Yup, that's the plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Dead-dead things are scary! I'll just let you charge me. Yup, that's the plan. Yeah, the Skaven are all about "Come at me, bro!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Yeah, the Skaven are all about "Come at me, bro!" as a dwarf player we would totally come at you! ..................it just might take a while! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Math has been done. I have come to the following conclusions: The old Master of Blades and the new Master of Blades are both 16.7% better than Parry. New Parry is technically worse than Old Parry. See below chart. However, that is because old parry was significantly better when the successful hit was a 3. While 3+ to hit does happen, I would argue it isn't the majority of cases, especially when you consider that you must have a sword to parry. Feel free to prove me wrong. Outside of 3+ to hit, New Parry and Old Parry average to be equal. [With Old Parry] Don't try to hit a Dwarf with Master of Blades and two Dwarf Axes. It doesn't work. Here is a massive ugly chart that shows... everything. Someone might be able to draw more conclusions from it than I have presented here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninefinger Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Excellent work. I'm happy with parry as it stands, although it could be improved to make swords more worth it. Maybe a 4+ or 5+ would be appropriate... Or it could be similar to the BS to-hit chart... I once did a similar thing calculating whether to change Magic from the difficulty system to a modified test vs Ld. Math mmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 [With Old Parry] Don't try to hit a Dwarf with Master of Blades and two Dwarf Axes. It doesn't work. even if im the dwarf player? challenge accepted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I have to say this thread is amazing. Lots of great advice, good feedback and constructive criticism, and most of all a good time being had by all. Are you sure this is a war game??! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Wtf is a wargame? I'm larping. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savion47 Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I have to say this thread is amazing. Lots of great advice, good feedback and constructive criticism, and most of all a good time being had by all. Are you sure this is a war game??! Get a warband and join, Jeff has models! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Looks like I have to work this Sunday. If anyone wants to help me make up a few games, let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I feel like I should stop volunteering for things. And I'm sure Evan doesn't want to face me agaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain. It'd be like the 10th time in a month. Ok, the third time in three weeks. Whatever. C'mon people, someone play Rudra. He's just like Grimace [not really]! (I had no idea who that was until 4 seconds ago) That said, I and Brad will be throwing down at Red Castle tonight around 6:30. I'm sure there would be time for plenty of games if anyone wants to drop by. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Yeah Evan, I'd love to get in some more games. I'm pretty free this week and next - daytime is better than evenings but I can really do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Alright. I will be working afternoons and nights through Sunday, but on Monday and Tuesday I should be pretty free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Quick post carnage report:Vs Brad's... Mercenaries of some faction 1st Game: Occupy. We rolled 4 objectified buildings, which means we would have to fight over at least one building. There was one in each deployment zone, and two next to each other, in the middle of the board. The first few turns were pretty slow, with some shots fired, and one rat being taken out of action. I was hiding from his shooting (BS4 longbows???) in all the buildings. Then, on turn 6, I left cover all at once. He couldn't handle the overwhelming numbers of my rats. I took a few of his men down, and he self-routed. Victory for the Skaven. Post-game: 1 mercenary had to be replaced. 1 Verminkin died from his wounds, and a replacement was quickly summoned from the Eshin output at REDACTED. My Sorcerer reached an advancement box, and leveled up his (drum-roll please) Leadership. Piece of [big bad swear word]. 2nd Game: Skirmish. I ran at him. He waited for me. He fired his long bows, killing some rats. First turn, 5 rats failed their jump test. On I4. Out of... about 7 tests. That was a theme for the game, giant rats rolling 5+ on jump tests. When I finally got to him, he held the choke point on a bridge. We fought for several turns. He passed two rout tests on a 7. When he killed enough of mine to make me rout, I failed the test, and the Mercenaries from somewhere won the game. Post game: However, this was a shallow victory, for the Mercenary leader died from being bit in the leg by a diseased Giant Rat. With that loss, the Mercenary squad was disbanded. Meanwhile, the Verminkin fresh from the Eshin outpost died. He was quickly replaced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valourunbound Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Time for my daily rules question: Say I take a wagon, and load it with slingers, and start destroying everyone. For this to work, I need to know a few things: How many horses/animals does it come with? As many as I can fit on the base? Does the hero who bought it have to be the driver? Does a hero have to be the driver? If the wagon is destroyed in a battle, is it permadead? If I only lose a horse, do I have to buy a replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninefinger Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Looking at the section from empire in flames at the end of the rules pdf, 6 can ride in a wagon, with 1 as the driver. Doesn't need to be a hero. I don't see any rules listed for how damage/injuries are applies. It doesn't seem to be misc. equipment anymore, which would mean it was lost with the hero. I'll dig up,the original sources and see if there a page I shouldn't have left out. My suggestion would be that it follows the rules for henchmen after the battle, as do the steeds. Dead on a 1-2, fine on a 3-6. And if you really have a fantasy of riding in a wagon shooting everyone, we should play gorkamorka sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.