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End of Fantasy as we know it?


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The community has split into the AoS crowd and the Oldhammer crowd, so you will have to choose. Luckily you don't have to pay for the AoS rules and can decided for yourself. (So glad I didn't preorder anything. I personally hate the new rules and unless GW makes a 180 turn I will not be purchasing from them anymore.)

 

I am falling back on my other games and will wait to see what happens.

 

 

Also there are more rumors flying around about this not being just a Fantasy thing but they are considering giving 40K the AoS treatment. Talk about The Codex disappearing is out there. And before anyone says they wouldn't do that just remember when the Fantasy rumors first started, none of us bought it at first.

 

 

Just for reference sake: "via Hastings on Warseer

I have said I was told that Codexes (Codices? how the hell do you do the plural of Codex anyway???) would be gone within 2 years. That might mean the rules for each unit are included in the boxes/free on the net/wd etc.

 

I do think that 40k rules will become more simplified, why? because GW don't want to focus on making games systems/rules anymore, they purely want to sell models. I do not doubt for one second that they (the main 40k rules) "COULD" become like AoS, but that is my personal opinion, and as I openly said that was me jumping to the conclusion based on how easily they destroyed their longest game world in favour of making more money.

 

I think rather than being of any use at all this thread is purely scaremongering and misleading. The death of the codex doesn't mean the end of 40k, the death of the army book in WFB was because AoS had ALREADY killed WFB, and AoS had no place for army books."

 

And Hastings was dead on about AoS a year ago, so yeah, food for thought. (I know Pretre already posted this on the 40K forum but I just thought it was relevant to the OP if he was a 40K player.)

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The community has split into the AoS crowd and the Oldhammer crowd, so you will have to choose.

 

But... why does someone have to 'choose'? I haven't sold my 8th ed stuff, and I have all the AoS stuff printed out and have enjoyed a half dozen games or so. All my figs are legal for both games.

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. Especially with AoS rules being free - you can enjoy both! :)

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But... why does someone have to 'choose'? I haven't sold my 8th ed stuff, and I have all the AoS stuff printed out and have enjoyed a half dozen games or so. All my figs are legal for both games.

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. Especially with AoS rules being free - you can enjoy both! :)

Well yes, there are going to be those in the middle. My point was things are different and not everyone is going to be playing the same game, especially since AoS is a completely new game. And there are gong to be those testing out AoS to see how it holds for the long haul and not just the excitement of a new toy. Honestly there needs to be those kind of players.

 

I just know without an balance I won't be playing and I enjoy complex games with solid rules, AoS is just not my kind of game. (I have heard the arguments about how AoS is balanced with sudden death rules but coming from WM/H I hated the assassination rule and AoS has many of them. And let's be very honest, yes the units come with their own rules, (Even though Malifaux models come with even more rules than AoS) but 4 pages of basic rules covering all the basic rules is just to light for my taste. 12-15 pages I can get behind but 4 is less than Risk.)

 

Again this is my take of it and the game maybe just what some players really want, a simple Beer and Pretzel game.

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Well yes, there are going to be those in the middle. My point was things are different and not everyone is going to be playing the same game, especially since AoS is a completely new game. And there are gong to be those testing out AoS to see how it holds for the long haul and not just the excitement of a new toy. Honestly there needs to be those kind of players.

 

I just know without an balance I won't be playing and I enjoy complex games with solid rules, AoS is just not my kind of game. (I have heard the arguments about how AoS is balanced with sudden death rules but coming from WM/H I hated the assassination rule and AoS has many of them. And let's be very honest, yes the units come with their own rules, (Even though Malifaux models come with even more rules than AoS) but 4 pages of basic rules covering all the basic rules is just to light for my taste. 12-15 pages I can get behind but 4 is less than Risk.)

 

Again this is my take of it and the game maybe just what some players really want, a simple Beer and Pretzel game.

 

I can definitely agree with you there. As much as I have enjoyed the games I've played and watched, those games have been with  1) People who agreed to somewhat comparable sized forces, or 2) Two armies facing each other which I selected all the models for, so that they would be roughly 'equivalent in power'. :)

 

To me, that's the #1 issue - the lack of force organization. Unless I am playing someone I know pretty well or know is agreeable to self-limitation, this game isn't really going to hold my interest. If my opponent is cool with -some- sort of limitation (i.e. total wounds, or something), then we could work it out, and though it might not be perfect - no points system I've ever used has been 'perfect' either, so we'd be on semi-familiar ground. ;)

 

This is still, to me, the biggest mystery. I love the free rules, and I love the Warscroll idea. While I have 3-4 MAJOR gripes with the game, this is the #1 gripe and I fear might be a deal-breaker for me. It still completely blows me away that GW went this route.

 

I don't -have- to like the new figs - I wouldn't be buying them anyway. I already have my armies and don't want another. Some folks love the Siggies and I am happy for them. And obviously there have been Chaos fans since 1st ed, and though they are all a little touched in the head for liking Chaos at all (ha ha!), I am happy for them to have new figs, too.

 

To answer the guy coming back - is AoS the 'end of Fantasy as you know it'.... the answer is an obvious 'yes'. GW isn't supporting the FB that you know, and for all intents and purposes they're done with it. AoS is a pretty enormous departure from WHFB 'that we knew', and that was purely intentional on their part. But that just means it's the end of how you knew it - it doesn't have to be the -end- completely. You can still play 8th ed. There are plenty of folks (aka Oldhammers as people have mentioned) who want to stick with previous editions. That's totally cool!

 

But it also would not hurt at all to give AoS a try. If you own an army - you can try the game for -free- and not spend a single penny to find out for yourself if it's your cup of tea or not.

 

-Tim

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I'd pretty happily play both. 

 

The black-and-white, one-or-the-other mindset is largely a side effect of loss of interest or frustration with the old system along with the fear and disappointment which comes with a dramatic change to the current system.  Personally I fear that people will stop playing WFB completely, but I don't see that happening.  The two systems will be able to coexist, and when the dust settles I think most people will see that there is merit to both games.

 

So long as the community stays connected I will be happy.  I'm 90% in it for the people, 10% for whatever we are throwing dice at.

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I do think that 40k rules will become more simplified, why? because GW don't want to focus on making games systems/rules anymore, they purely want to sell models. I do not doubt for one second that they (the main 40k rules) "COULD" become like AoS, but that is my personal opinion, and as I openly said that was me jumping to the conclusion based on how easily they destroyed their longest game world in favour of making more money.

40k still has league play, stores barely stock fantasy. Why wouldn't they just let other companies write campaign books for their new d20 i mean d6 system.

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Not all stores are the same, more and more.. hobby stores carrying only comics and mtg

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/state-of-the-tabletop-industry-spring-2015.html

 

Now let’s dive into Spring 2015 with the following segments:

 

Miniatures Wargames

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2015

 

Title Publisher

1. Warhammer 40k Games Workshop

2. Star Wars X-Wing Fantasy Flight Games

3. Star Wars Armada Fantasy Flight Games

4. Warmachine Privateer Press

5. Hordes Privateer Press

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Not all stores are the same, more and more.. hobby stores carrying only comics and mtg

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/state-of-the-tabletop-industry-spring-2015.html

 

Now let’s dive into Spring 2015 with the following segments:

 

Miniatures Wargames

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2015

 

Title Publisher

1. Warhammer 40k Games Workshop

2. Star Wars X-Wing Fantasy Flight Games

3. Star Wars Armada Fantasy Flight Games

4. Warmachine Privateer Press

5. Hordes Privateer Press

I'm pretty sure I just stated the facts for two stores I knew about and didn't try to apply it to the industry. :)

 

That is from a survey of distributors and doesn't reflect stores, etc that don't deal with those distributors. A lot of FLGS deal directly with GW, as far as I know.

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Here's a viewpoint from an industry insider (owner of two of the largest FLGS in Pennsylvania).
 

The thing about ICV2 reporting that Warmachine outsold WFB...... 
 
ICV2 isn't taking into account sales of GW products from the GW website, stores, or NA trade sales. My stores did over 50,000 in sales of WFB in the year 2010. ICV2 doesn't count it.In fact, ICV2 doesn't 'Count' anything. They don't adjust their data by sales volume, they usually just have distributors rate games "Give us the top 5 selling tabletop games." So while ICV2 can let you make statements like "Based on the opinions of the 5 US distributors we talked to, Warmachine sold better than WFB, from the 5 distributors the talked to. 
 
It is equally valid to ask GW to rate the sales of the top 5 games based on their data. 
 
1. 40k 
2. WFB 
3. LOTR 
4. Dreadfleet 
5. Mighty empires 
 
See? warmachine didn't even make the top 5! 
 
ICV2 will be highly weighted by the sales numbers of Diamond Comics and Alliance Games Distributors. Very few retailers that carry a lot of GW order any GW product from them. It carries a 35% discount, not 45%. And from Diamond will incur shipping charges at well. Stock on hand is limited. You won't get product as fast. you will not recieve the free racking and product support that GW offers retailers. It's just a far worse deal to go through them for GW vs going direct. 
 
Compare that to Privateer, that goes 100% through distribution, does not sell off their own website, or sell direct to stores. ICV2 will count ALL of my Privateer sales, and none of my GW sales. 
 
It's just not good data for trying to analyze GW sales in comparison to other companies. 
 
 
 
Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a point of information: 
 
ICV2 = Internal Correspondance Volume 2. This was a newletter put out by Capital City Comics, a comic book distributor that was #2 behind diamond comics in the days before Marvel Comics caused such chaos in the industry that all but Diamond Comics Distributing were driven out of business. Diamond assumed some of the properties of Cap City and of course got all their accounts when they went under. (One distributor left, got to use them.) 
 
ICV2 came along with that, and they kept it going. It's just an old newletter. They gather some data, ask opinions, write articles. I laugh at many of their "Top 5 XXXXX" each month. They do not have access to any hard numbers other than possibly Diamond Comics, and maybe Alliance Games Distributors. (Who bought Alliance.)
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Well on a good note we got this coming.

 

 

 

Humans vs Orcs... Yawn.

 

...But it does look damned good. ;)

 

And I like how when the big spider thing charges in near the end, you can hear one of the humans shouting 'Take it down!'.... and the voice sounds so very much like Theoden in RotK when they charge the Mumakils. LOL! Awesome. :)

 

I also like how the narrator said, 'We don't want magic to be op..." ... just as the Goblin Shaman completely wipes out that big unit of Outriders. LOL! :)

 

Looks very promising. Much better than I anticipated. :)

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