Collecting FAQ suggestions

[Lord Hanaur]

We don't ignore codex's.

[AbusePuppy]

The rules in the CSM codex about generating psychic powers do not contradict anything in the BRB. While it would be nice if Chaos Psychic Focus fulfilled your requirement to take a power from your patron's discipline, generating powers always is used in reference to rolling them randomly (or, in the case of a handful of models, picking them) from the disciplines and thus you will still have to roll at least once on the CSM chart if you have a Mark.

 

I expect you're right that it will be worded that way in the next CSM book, whenever that ever comes out, but for the time being the rule of thumb is "don't take a Mark because they're kinda crippling for Sorcerers."

[Guest]

I expect you're right that it will be worded that way in the next CSM book, whenever that ever comes out, but for the time being the rule of thumb is "don't take a Mark because they're kinda crippling for Sorcerers."

So sad. My Tzeentch marines are shelved until next codex.

[Lord Hanaur]

Can't speak to that!  But i hope you play for more reasons than JUST to beat someone up in the Psyker phase.  =)

[Guest]

Can't speak to that!  But i hope you play for more reasons than JUST to beat someone up in the Psyker phase.  =)

Lol... as if CSM have a strong enough psychic base with or without this change.

 

Chaos daemons have a strong psyker base, Tzeentch are still outnumbered in psychic dice to GK. Sad as it is, GK make for a better Thousand Sons army than CSM do...

[Lord Hanaur]

Lol... as if CSM have a strong enough psychic base with or without this change.

 

Chaos daemons have a strong psyker base, Tzeentch are still outnumbered in psychic dice to GK. Sad as it is, GK make for a better Thousand Sons army than CSM do...

No reason not to play it though.  Anywho, any more questions?

[Guest]

No reason not to play it though.  Anywho, any moe questions?

?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29

[Guest]

Anyway, more questions.

 

If an IC deep strikes alone and joins an IC that didn't deep strike, can they charge on that same turn?

 

Or if an IC joins a unit from the Skyhammer Assault Formation, does the unit retain the ability to charge after deep striking?

[AbusePuppy]

?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29

 

I wasn't gonna say it, but that was my first thought, too. :P

[Talonwinter]

If he doesn't have the rule for the formation I would say no. But it is a good question.

The IC would have to be able to pick when it comes in just like the Formation can. Since the drop pods

don't count for or toward the drop pod assault rule there is no way a IC would have the same rule even to join, let alone assault with the unit.

 

The krone formation with the drop pod that allows them to assault when they come in. That one need to be cleared up as well. 20 Berserkers assaulting when they come in is very nice as well... That one may be forge world not sure. So it may not apply..

[fluger]

Rare steaks: wrong on nutrition. Wrong on taste. Wrong for America.

 

I'm so in agreement with this it's not funny.  

[Guest]

If he doesn't have the rule for the formation I would say no. But it is a good question.

Pretre and I got going for 20-ish pages on this one. Was wondering how LH would rule it. Issue relates more to the vagueness of both the BRB formation rules and the IC rules. Neither hold up to scrutiny.

 

This is especially the case when regarding ICs join units entirely made of ICs. In this case, issue is a lack of clarity on which IC set is the unit that the other ICs are joining, as the IC rules are very much clear that ICs are part of the joined unit.

 

And the Deep Strike rules are no help either, as they pertain to units, and leave models joining them rather vague.

 

So, in example, a "Unit" consisting of a single IC deep strikes within coherency of another IC, one which did not deep strike. They join together. Does this combined unit count as deep striking for the purposes of making charges? Or rather, for rules, which IC "joined" a unit?

 

It's a rhetorical question because the BRB just isn't clear on this. We got going on a very long discussion on this one and it really never resolved to a point where either could convince the other. Ultimately, both of us think it's too vague to attempt in a normal game, unless our opponent agrees beforehand.

 

The krone formation with the drop pod that allows them to assault when they come in. That one need to be cleared up as well. 20 Berserkers assaulting when they come in is very nice as well... That one may be forge world not sure. So it may not apply..

I'd have to look these up. Any clue as to their actual names?

[WestRider]

It's called the Fist of Khorne, and it does require a FW Unit, the Kharybdis Assault Claw, so it's not relevant here. From the Fist of Khorne campaign that's Warhammer World Exclusive.

[Talonwinter]

Pretre and I got going for 20-ish pages on this one. Was wondering how LH would rule it. Issue relates more to the vagueness of both the BRB formation rules and the IC rules. Neither hold up to scrutiny.

 

This is especially the case when regarding ICs join units entirely made of ICs. In this case, issue is a lack of clarity on which IC set is the unit that the other ICs are joining, as the IC rules are very much clear that ICs are part of the joined unit.

 

And the Deep Strike rules are no help either, as they pertain to units, and leave models joining them rather vague.

 

So, in example, a "Unit" consisting of a single IC deep strikes within coherency of another IC, one which did not deep strike. They join together. Does this combined unit count as deep striking for the purposes of making charges? Or rather, for rules, which IC "joined" a unit?

 

It's a rhetorical question because the BRB just isn't clear on this. We got going on a very long discussion on this one and it really never resolved to a point where either could convince the other. Ultimately, both of us think it's too vague to attempt in a normal game, unless our opponent agrees beforehand.

 

I'd have to look these up. Any clue as to their actual names?

I see where your coming from on this. I would still look at the rule the IC has. If his rule allows him to pick when he comes in good if not he can't join.

 

The formation doesn't have a HQ option for you to add to it. The formation has set

rules that limit the option yu may take. Any thing you add to it would not get the same rules as it does not have it in its own set of rules.

 

Normal rules for coming in from revere would apply to any model yu add to the unit as that model has to follow the rules it governed bye. You don't get to mix and match

The formation rules are very specific that said models are allowed to assault. If the

unit has a added IC he is not one of the said models so the unit would not be able to

attack..

 

I understand why you like it to be.

[Guest]

I see where your coming from on this. I would still look at the rule the IC has. If his rule allows him to pick when he comes in good if not he can't join.

What do you mean, "when" he comes in? Why would that matter?

[Guest]

I understand why you like it to be.

You seem to think I've got this angle I'm trying to run here. I want clarity in the rules, and that is it. I don't want to re-hash this one. it was 20pages of going nowhere. It's on our forums somewhere, go find it if your curious.

 

I'm asking LH, because he's compiling his own answers to unanswered questions in 40k. That's the point.

[PourSpelur]

I'm so in agreement with this it's not funny.

 

Wrong.

How wrong?

This wrong

(Slightly nsfw)

 

 

[Talonwinter]

What do you mean, "when" he comes in? Why would that matter?

I am not trying to argue or be disrespectful. just trying to understand where you are going with this. I didn't think you where trying to have a devious idea or something like that.

 

the formations rule says you pick which turn it automatically comes in on turn one or two. Any IC that

Joins would have to have a similar rule to allow you too pick when you would come in

 

They rule:::

First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike reserve, the Devestator Squads in this Formation have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn.

 

A IC would have to have that rule to be able to assault the turn it comes in. The rule First the Fire,

then the Blade is not like stealth which is conveyed to who ever joins it. It is like sterngaurd ammo.

A IC doesn't get the ammo just because he has a bolter that can shoot it. He has to have the Rule

allowing him to have it. With out the rule First to fire, Then the Blade he can't attack out of

deep-strike.

 

If you have the link to the thread you are talking about I enjoy reading it.

[Lord Hanaur]

Anyway, more questions.

 

If an IC deep strikes alone and joins an IC that didn't deep strike, can they charge on that same turn?

 

Or if an IC joins a unit from the Skyhammer Assault Formation, does the unit retain the ability to charge after deep striking?

I am again not 100% sure i AM understanding the question correctly so DO tell me if I have it wrong.  BUT here is what I THINK you're referring to:

 

First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn.

 

So as it says here, the rule refers specifically to the Assault Squads from the Skyhammer being able to charge on the round they arrive.  Not just units in general, Assault Squads in particular; and more specifically those from the Formation.

 

So a character joining them would neither qualify AS an Assault Squad, nor as coming FROM this formation.  While they may form a UNIT, The IC does not magically become an ASSAULT SQUAD, which is the only unit named to be affected by this rule.  He can join one but he isn't one.

[Guest]

I am again not 100% sure i AM understanding the question correctly so DO tell me if I have it wrong.  BUT here is what I THINK you're referring to:

 

First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn.

 

So as it says here, the rule refers specifically to the Assault Squads from the Skyhammer being able to charge on the round they arrive.  Not just units in general, Assault Squads in particular; and more specifically those from the Formation.

 

So a character joining them would neither qualify AS an Assault Squad, nor as coming FROM this formation.  While they may form a UNIT, The IC does not magically become an ASSAULT SQUAD, which is the only unit named to be affected by this rule.  He can join one but he isn't one.

So, I do agree with the above, but that isn't really the issue per say.

 

First, does joining an IC to the assault squad in the above formation prevent said assault squad from assaulting? Does it matter when the IC joins the unit (in reserves, or as they arrive on the table)? Does it matter if the IC would normally be able to assault or not prior to joining the assault squad?

 

Again, the issue forms around a lack of clarity in the IC rules.

 

And those Deep strike rules are no help, as they specifically are resolved per unit that deep strikes and don't seem to have any clear concept regarding ICs joined to, or joining, a deep strike unit.

 

AND the assault rules are handled per unit, rather all or nothing. The IC rules don't say anything about joined ICs affecting game phases like the ability to assault for a unit.

So, in example, a "Unit" consisting of a single IC deep strikes within coherency of another IC, one which did not deep strike. They join together. Does this combined unit count as deep striking for the purposes of making charges? Or rather, for rules, which IC "joined" a unit?

Here's this one again. Illustrates the lack of clarity better. I'll explain it further:

 

1) A unit deep strikes. So in this case, one unit of a single IC has used deep strike.

2) ICs that join a unit, and are considered part of that unit for all rules purposes (except as noted in a few BRB areas).

3a) So if the deep striking IC is the "primary" unit, and the other IC joins it, then the unit has arrived via deep strike.

3b) If the non-DS IC is the "primary" unit, and the deep striking IC joins it, then the unit has not arrived via deep strike.

4) that said, all this talk of "primary" units is bogus, as it isn't something in the BRB. There's actually no clarity at all regarding what happens when one IC joins another, all except a note that it can happen...

 

So, more or less, the primary FAQ question is:

 

What rules govern ICs?

[pretre]

lol Good times.

[Talonwinter]

So, I do agree with the above, but that isn't really the issue per say.

 

First, does joining an IC to the assault squad in the above formation prevent said assault squad from assaulting? Does it matter when the IC joins the unit (in reserves, or as they arrive on the table)? Does it matter if the IC would normally be able to assault or not prior to joining the assault squad?

 

Again, the issue forms around a lack of clarity in the IC rules.

 

And those Deep strike rules are no help, as they specifically are resolved per unit that deep strikes and don't seem to have any clear concept regarding ICs joined to, or joining, a deep strike unit. 

 

AND the assault rules are handled per unit, rather all or nothing. The IC rules don't say anything about joined ICs affecting game phases like the ability to assault for a unit.

Here's this one again. Illustrates the lack of clarity better. I'll explain it further:

 

1) A unit deep strikes. So in this case, one unit of a single IC has used deep strike.

2) ICs that join a unit, and are considered part of that unit for all rules purposes (except as noted in a few BRB areas).

3a) So if the deep striking IC is the "primary" unit, and the other IC joins it, then the unit has arrived via deep strike.

3b) If the non-DS IC is the "primary" unit, and the deep striking IC joins it, then the unit has not arrived via deep strike.

4) that said, all this talk of "primary" units is bogus, as it isn't something in the BRB. There's actually no clarity at all regarding what happens when one IC joins another, all except a note that it can happen...

 

So, more or less, the primary FAQ question is:

 

What rules govern ICs?

So you have two single units with one non-deep-strike and one with. One of the two has the deepstrike acting for that turn.

How I understand the rule book. If any unit coming in from reserves or deep-strike Normally it can't charge. It doesn't matter if you join it or not with a IC that was already on the board.

 

You have to follow the rule for both unit.

If the IC has a rule that allows it to attack after coming in from reserve some how then it would be able to attack with the other IC that's on the board.

[pretre]

Like most rules discussions, it will help if you quote specific passages rather than interpretations.

[pretre]

Rather than rehash, I suggest LH and Talon reread the massive thread on this subject and come to a decision from the rules quotes posted there:

 

http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/24803-circular-debates-over-assault-rules-was%C2%A0new-csm%C2%A0stuff/page-28

[Lord Hanaur]

Talon wasn't the one asking.  I think its Paxmiles that wanted to know this.

 

Other FAQ's people would like answered?