Don't Panic Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 i really miss TnT games and team games... those are always a freaking blast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Up in B'ham we've been playing Kings of War. It's super fun, with a tight ruleset. All of the movement tactics of 6th and 7th ed. Fantasy, with none of the fiddle bits. I recommend it! Awesome! I am getting over my disappointments in some of what I see as missed opportunities and thinking more and more that kow will be the game going forward. If we decide that kow needs more units to cover wfb stuff, I may apply some machine learning to determine the underlying math behind the kow points system. The machine can learn craptons of latent variables to find a true fit, capturing all the non linear relationships in the scoring (stuff the designers wouldn't know, but that has evolved out of play testing). This could make a great starting point for designing new units like a proper bloodthirster :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 i really miss TnT games and team games... those are always a freaking blast GW simply MUST release an AoS version of this! Im sure they will cuz money ya know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 TnT games are still the most fun ive ever had playing warhammer. mostly cause im an expert at being a jerk :) 'oh dont worry i wont shoot you this turn.... see i just used my CC phase against you when i charged you in the flank... my bad!' ... generally everyone decides to kill me first round :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosGerbil Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I haven't played Fantasy for 20 years, but I have a huge Chaos army, a full Wood Elf army, and units of Skaven, Empire, Orcs, Dark Elves, Undead, and Dwarves. Unlike my 40k horde most of my Fantasy stuff is not fully painted, but that could change real fast if I start playing. I can host in Maple Valley, and possibly make it to Heroic Knight sometime. Mordheim sounds the most promising. I am also working on fantasy scenery and monsters, in hopes of a dungeon crawl campaign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Sorry, I just happen to enjoy the game. I know its not what everyone wanted but Im giving it a shot and being positive. I think its a good thing to make something more accessible to the masses while still keeping a certain flavor. How DARE you?!! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 NTK!? Whats up!? Lets play some games dude! I have 100 wounds of Skaven Pestilins I'll be bringing to the league Friday night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 PM'd ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I trained up a Kings of War cost predictor for new units using a Support Vector Regressor, and it gets really good results! It correctly predicts existing unit costs with a median error of 5 points. Pretty awesome, since they round to 5 points :) (mean error is 9, but there are some units with one-off rules that confuse it a tiny bit). I don't know if there are other machine learning nerds on Ordo, but this is a pretty darn good result. I'd wager this does as well or better than initial costs assigned by the designers themselves. So for example, I think Great Ax don't quite match Black Orcs, as I think Black Orcs should have De 5. My ML model predicts that the cost of a unit with the same stats as Great Ax but with +1 De would be 110/161/261. Or say I really thought River Trolls should have 'Ensnare' (I don't), my model predicts that would cost 145/213 instead of 125/190. Another fun application would be "living legend units", like "Gorbad's Tusks", an elite unit of boarboyz led by the mighty Gorbad. Maybe I'll take a regiment of Gore Riders, give them +5 att, +3/3 Ne and Inspiring. I get 257 points for this regiment. Finally, let's do a BloodThirster. We'll take an Archfiend with wings, give it +3 att, and +2/+2 Ne. Prediction is 341 points. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 For those few out there who don't know what a Support Vector Regressor is, it's a type of machine learning model, which is 'trained' (that is, taught to predict something) using 'supervised learning' (meaning, you input some data, it tries to predict, and then you tell it how far off its prediction was). Over time, the model 'learns' to predict more and more accurately. Or put another way, it keeps track of the supervised input, and eventually finds a model that does a really good job predicting something. In this particular case, OrkDork input the entirety of the KoW2 unit statistics and special abilities, along with their costs. Then, he removed one unit, and told the model to predict the cost of the removed unit based on all the other units with similar stats and abilities. Then he 'supervised' it by saying, 'I'm sorry HAL, you are off by 25 points, please adjust your model.' and did this over all the units until HAL could take a known units stats and abilities, and (without knowing the unit cost) HAL could predict within +/- about 5 points (median error) the actual cost. At that point he now had a useful model which could take in a previously non-existent set of stats (e.g. the above Bloodthirster stats) and give a score that *should* be right about at what the unit should cost relative to other units in the game. Nice job bro! If you need an icon for that, let me know. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Neato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 By the way, here is a nice army builder site for KoW2. http://kow2.easyarmy.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 You know, this is a lot like pathfinder. D&D screwed up and made a lacking edition, so all the players went a game system that was like the old edition, but one they'd never have played prior to the screw up. Now GW has screwed up and we have Kings of War.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 To be fair, Kings of War has been around for quite a while. The new edition hit at a very good time. But yes, due to GW's failure to retain WFB in any degree, they have helped create the exodus to Kings of War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Screw kings of war! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Screw kings of war! LOL awesome :) When you are in town come over and we'll play, it's fun and a LOT quicker than WFB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I spent an hour or so re-examining my Empire yesterday. My next project may be to restore and slowly paint through some of them. They are just a fun army to play! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talapas Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm still running events at Borderlands for 8th. I am not interested in Kings of war, and AOS isn't a system I love either. We will see how we move ahead as the majority of my club is done Wargaming for while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm still running events at Borderlands for 8th. I am not interested in Kings of war, and AOS isn't a system I love either. We will see how we move ahead as the majority of my club is done Wargaming for while. I'd be up for an 8th tournament, and probably could get my two brothers to play too, but Swedish Comp is kind of a must for us at this point, so I don't know if you use that in your tournaments? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosGerbil Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Last weekend the Seattle wargaming tourny TSHFT happened. There were over 60 players for 40k and 0 for Fantasy 8th. They are switching over to Warmachine. Kinda sad. Smooth move GW. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 they cancelled the fantasy one. Thats why no one was there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkieft Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Warhammer Fantasy cancelled, replaced with Warmachine TSHFT is saddened to say, but the current state of 8th edition has created a situation whereby we have NO people signed up to play fantasy. Without any seemingly possible to hit even 20 guys, it just doesn’t warrant the costs associated with a tournament that is giving away 3 cruise tickets. We are currently in the works of transitioning the WHFB space over to Warmachine and we’ve got a Press Ganger on board to run the event. Rules and sales are live! Very sad, CG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Well I guess it all depends on how resilient the fantasy player base is going to be. There is certainly no reason not to continue playing. They have their rules, their books, their armies....they just need to get over the fact that GW kicked them in the nuts. Me, I just bought a new fantasy army. I have three games in which to use it with (8th, KoW, and AoS). Its a great time right now to be a fantasy player. People just need to realize that they don't need GW's support to keep playing the game. Don't let those corporate jackasses take it away from you. Fantasy players just need to man up. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkieft Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think it is just a period of mourning for the most part... 40k players have their cute bouncy Fantasy girlfriend now, Fantasy players are just a bit in shock over the brutality of the breakup after the radical plastic surgery they paid for. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talapas Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I think it is just a period of mourning for the most part... 40k players have their cute bouncy Fantasy girlfriend now, Fantasy players are just a bit in shock over the brutality of the breakup after the radical plastic surgery they paid for. Big bad swear word amazing. Great analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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