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Where to start? and a few questions.


Flatlander

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sorry if this gets long...

 

With the death of Warhammer fantasy and my long time Thousand Sons 40k army being down in the dumps codex wise I've felt like I need to branch out in my games. I've tried out a few other game systems like bolt action, firestorm armada and x-wing and while they all have things I like about them they have all fallen a bit short in one way or another. Bolt Action is a really fun game and even though I love the setting its too limiting for pick up games, Wehrmacht vs Japan or any other weird match up really ruins it for me and its hard to find players. Firestorm Armada is fun but just takes waaaay too long to play a game and x-wing while having a tight ruleset I really don't like the CCG meta shift every time a new wave comes out and its missing the very important hobby aspect of creating my own unique army. 

 

So that leads me to Infinity. I've downloaded the rules and so far like what I'm seeing and it seems like the barrier to entry is pretty low but I have a few questions before I commit to anything. How long does a typical game take? between work and family its a real struggle to find time to game and taking half a day for a single game means I don't get to play very often.

 

Is there a tournament scene in portland and how cut throat is it? are the factions well balanced? I like tournaments and attended Rogue Traders for years but I'm a pretty relaxed gamer and tend not to math hammer my lists to death and the cut throat attitude of warmahordes tournaments and general gameplay turned me off. Can I expect to play in a tournament and have a decent chance of winning games if I play my list well? or is it determined by who brings the best list from the most powerful faction? I don't care that much about winning but I also don't want to pick a faction and then find out I chose the weakest one in the game and stand no chance of a competitive tournament game (I'm looking at you Thousand Sons).

 

If I buy in where do I even start? There are so many units and sublists that it's a little daunting. Is the ice storm box generally considered a good place to start? or does everyone already play PanO and Nomads? both factions seem interesting but Im really drawn to Yu Jing or possibly Combined Army, would it be better to just buy one of the faction starter boxes? or should I look into picking up separate models? its hard to judge if the starter forces are a good deal and if ill use most of the models in bigger games. list building in general is still a mystery to me at this point, I have no idea what I should be taking or why.

 

TL;DR help! I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm about to spend a lot of money.

 

 

 

 

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Based on your questions I would recommend Infinity highly. One of the things that I like best about Infinity is how well balanced it is. It's not really about net-lists. Nothing is perfectly balanced, but you can basically bring whatever units appeal to you aesthetically or game-play wise and make it work. It's more about how you're playing your list than what your list contains.

 

There is actually a pretty sizable group of players in Portland. Every Thursday night at 7, Red Castle has a group of guys who play. They're a really good bunch too, very nice folks. They put on occasional tournaments and a few of them attend tournaments in the region. I would say they're competitive but not to the point where it's a barrier to entry - new people come from time to time and after a few weeks they're winning games.

 

Even better, there's a bunch of us playing at WoW on Sunday nights, most players brand new to the game (since the death of Fantasy). Now's such a good time to join!

 

There really is no "weak" faction. Again, nothing is perfectly balanced, but it's so tightly balanced that I couldn't name one faction that is the weakest. There's some tournament data to suggest that Aleph might be the strongest, but if it is it's only marginally stronger than anyone else.

 

Look at all the models on the Infinity site and decide what you want to paint. That is the best way to get into this. Maybe read a bit about what the factions' general play styles are. There was a recent topic around here that went into that. All factions can do pretty much everything, some just focus. For example Nomads do hacking the best. Pan O are the most accurate shooters. Ariadna are the best with physical rolls and camo etc... Really you should just choose on aesthetics.

 

Buy a starter box. They're all excellent and again, there's no model that any list needs. You want roughly ten guys, so buy a starter pack and then maybe buy 3 or 4 guys that really appeal to you. You can read about each unit in the infinity forums, there are pinned threads that go over all the different choices.

 

For now, pick a faction that is pretty to you and sounds like fun playing, then buy a few guys. Red Castle in SE Portland has a few starter packs, you could go there and look in person. They also offer great discounts to order Infinity, 20% I believe.

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sorry if this gets long...

 

 

Bah. I relish thoughtful questions an insight.

 

 How long does a typical game take? 

 

Of course most games speed up with proficiency, a tournament game is suppose to be 1 hour 45 minutes for 300 points. New players can struggle for longer games. But for newer places, I recommend lower points. 100 point games can be played in 45 minutes. 

 

Is there a tournament scene in portland and how cut throat is it?

 

George, one of the Ordo Senators, runs tournaments. I think he has one planned for October. The game is not cutthroat and is meant to be a friendly dialog between two players. There is a sportsmanship post in this forum. Read it. It embodies the spirit of the game.  

 

 

are the factions well balanced?

 

 

Yes, there is no Tomb Kings fighting up hill against Dark Elves. That being said, each side is has slight proficiency over the other factions. Pan-O shoots slightly better. Adriana has a slight PH boost, etc. The boost is to give flavor and fluff over dominating meta.

 

Can I expect to play in a tournament and have a decent chance of winning games if I play my list well?

 

 

Infinity is nuanced and subtle. Players with more experience will do better no matter what faction they are playing. But players with like skill will have equal chances no matter what faction they are playing. Furthermore, luck can shift game play. A lowly Fussilier, in the right conditions, can cause considerable damage or run an opposing plan with a good ARO roll. 

 

 

If I buy in where do I even start?

 

 

It is the rule of cool. Play the fluff and models you like. You will enjoy the game more.

 

Is the ice storm box generally considered a good place to start?

 

Only if you want to play Nomads or Pan-O, other wise pick up a box set from a faction you like and few blisters and you are ready to go.

 

 

 I have no idea what I should be taking or why.

 

Basic troops are always good. They generate orders for your star models. A list needs a few standard troops, but they typically can be upgraded to be a medic, a forward observer, or possess a HMG or specialized weapon. You will want those. You need role players. Think football. your grunts are your line, but you need a QB (your LT), a running back (a TAG or Heavy Infantry), Wide Receivers (specialist like engineers, doctors, hackers), safety (a sniper or model with MSV, etc.)

 

I hope this helps.

 

Red Castle plays on Thursdays. Super Salty in Vancouver plays on Saturdays. We play on Sundays and were are all super noobs.

 

Cheers,

RD

 

 

TL;DR help! I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm about to spend a lot of money.

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even in bad matchup situations, all you need to do is roll one crit and it changes things completely! i dont really have much to add on top of what RD and peanut said, but read the crap out of the rulebook cause it takes as much if not more things to memorize than whfb(which is saying something...).  i love the models, fluff and terrain along with the game.  it will suck you in fast... buy what appeals to you the most.  who cares how popular the faction is unless thats something that really matters to play something 'unique'.  just research the heck out of it!  and you can always come to watch guys and they are more than willing to help you get a feeling for the game!  although it seems like you've done a lot of research already :)  good luck and looking forward to having you join the meta if you decide to make the plunge!

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even in bad matchup situations, all you need to do is roll one crit and it changes things completely! i dont really have much to add on top of what RD and peanut said, but read the crap out of the rulebook cause it takes as much if not more things to memorize than whfb(which is saying something...).  i love the models, fluff and terrain along with the game.  it will suck you in fast... buy what appeals to you the most.  who cares how popular the faction is unless thats something that really matters to play something 'unique'.  just research the heck out of it!  and you can always come to watch guys and they are more than willing to help you get a feeling for the game!  although it seems like you've done a lot of research already :)  good luck and looking forward to having you join the meta if you decide to make the plunge!

The game is extremely fluid, the goals and odds change in the time it takes the dice to roll to a stop!

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How is Infinity on the complexity scale, I only play WH40k is it about the same level or more complex than WH40k. I have been thinking about getting into this game as well. Could an 11 year old handle it with help from his dad?  Are the miniatures plastic, resin or metal? Are they the same scale as WH40k so I can use the same terrain I own. I hope I am not hijacking this thread.

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Infinity is a 28mm miniatures game, so it should be on par with the general size of 40k and related terrain. All models are metal. The basic rules are very simple and fairly clearcut, and IMO, it's the special rules you really need to learn. They're what individualizes one model from another. Personally, I think the rules make more logical sense than 40k. So if your kid can play 40k, s/he should have no problem playing infinity. Though it is much more involved than 40k, it is also more logical and cinematic.

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The miniatures are metal. They are true 28MM and not "heroic" like 40K. Some models will need to be pinned.  The terrain will be fine. We used several 40K pieces last week. They work fine. I am used Necromunda pieces and they are great.  

 

There are less models, so the game is easier to keep in mind, but at the same time, the game is more 3 dimensional and seems to have more possibilities. 

 

The basic rules are pretty straight forward, but the best of, but not going over, and canceling factors may be hard to understand for some 11 year olds. You child may be very savvy, so he may be fine. 

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How is Infinity on the complexity scale, I only play WH40k is it about the same level or more complex than WH40k. I have been thinking about getting into this game as well. Could an 11 year old handle it with help from his dad?  Are the miniatures plastic, resin or metal? Are they the same scale as WH40k so I can use the same terrain I own. I hope I am not hijacking this thread.

 

Just in my personal experience (very noobish at Infinity), Infinity is a wee bit more complex than 40K. The 'basic' rules are pretty straight forward, but the complexity comes in right away with the ARO. In 40K, when it's your turn, I pretty much sit back and only get involved if there are saves to be made. With Infinity, both players really are engaged pretty much throughout the game. Yes, you use many more figs in typical game of 40K, but as we all know, most of those figs are 'hit point markers' for the unit, really.

 

As for an 11 year old learning the game... really depends on the 11 year old. If they're a sharp kid, if they grasp 40K pretty well, then I'd say it'd be worth a shot to teach them this game and find out if they like it or not. :)

 

Generally the same scale as 40K (or at least close to), and I've seen plenty of folks use terrain between the two games. Just keep in mind that Infinity will really demand -more- terrain than a typical 40K game, from what I've seen.

 

Just my 2 coppers, though.

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sorry if this gets long...

 

With the death of Warhammer fantasy and my long time Thousand Sons 40k army being down in the dumps codex wise I've felt like I need to branch out in my games. I've tried out a few other game systems like bolt action, firestorm armada and x-wing and while they all have things I like about them they have all fallen a bit short in one way or another. Bolt Action is a really fun game and even though I love the setting its too limiting for pick up games, Wehrmacht vs Japan or any other weird match up really ruins it for me and its hard to find players. Firestorm Armada is fun but just takes waaaay too long to play a game and x-wing while having a tight ruleset I really don't like the CCG meta shift every time a new wave comes out and its missing the very important hobby aspect of creating my own unique army. 

 

So that leads me to Infinity. I've downloaded the rules and so far like what I'm seeing and it seems like the barrier to entry is pretty low but I have a few questions before I commit to anything. How long does a typical game take? between work and family its a real struggle to find time to game and taking half a day for a single game means I don't get to play very often.

 

Is there a tournament scene in portland and how cut throat is it? are the factions well balanced? I like tournaments and attended Rogue Traders for years but I'm a pretty relaxed gamer and tend not to math hammer my lists to death and the cut throat attitude of warmahordes tournaments and general gameplay turned me off. Can I expect to play in a tournament and have a decent chance of winning games if I play my list well? or is it determined by who brings the best list from the most powerful faction? I don't care that much about winning but I also don't want to pick a faction and then find out I chose the weakest one in the game and stand no chance of a competitive tournament game (I'm looking at you Thousand Sons).

 

If I buy in where do I even start? There are so many units and sublists that it's a little daunting. Is the ice storm box generally considered a good place to start? or does everyone already play PanO and Nomads? both factions seem interesting but Im really drawn to Yu Jing or possibly Combined Army, would it be better to just buy one of the faction starter boxes? or should I look into picking up separate models? its hard to judge if the starter forces are a good deal and if ill use most of the models in bigger games. list building in general is still a mystery to me at this point, I have no idea what I should be taking or why.

 

TL;DR help! I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm about to spend a lot of money.

 

Most of your questions have been answered by those with far more knowledge then me. But I do have a couple opinions to toss out. ;)

 

Infinity plays pretty fast, especially once you have the rules down. Every game I've played so far has been done in around two hours or less. Being a skirmish game, for a full 300 point list you might have between 8 and 20 figs, or thereabouts. Doesn't take that long to have a force (or that much $), and of course you don't have dozens of figs to paint, but rather a handful by comparison to the 'larger' games.

 

So far, my opinion is that factions are pretty well balanced. I wouldn't say it's 'perfect', but it's a breath of fresh air coming from certain other games, for sure.

 

As for tournaments... as usual, you're rolling dice, so that often is the deciding factor. But good tactics and the careful use of Orders will put you in the -position- to succeed. Some lists might fare better against other lists, depending on the force makeup for each one. If you come unprepared for certain skills/abilities, you will be fighting an uphill battle - but not a 'hopeless' one. As far as I've seen, there aren't any 'Deathstar' formations, or mega-hard near-unkillable models.

 

Ultimately, people told me to pick the faction and troops within that faction that I really like... and that's what I've done, and I've had a BLAST.

 

To buy in, pick a faction. Then buy the figs you like. If you love a certain 'look' or 'style', that's going to raise your enjoyment AND motivate you to paint. ;) Tally up the points of the figs you bought. If you're at 300 points (or more), you're ready to go! If not, you can supplement with a few more selections. Keep in mind that one of the core 'building' mechanics is "SWC" - you generally can't take a list full of Snipers/HMGs, for example, and models in a list usually do have Availability limits, as well. You'll learn about SWC and AVA as you read the book. :)

 

Often, someone teaching you the game will start small - around 120-150 points is a great 'learning level' without overwhelming you with special rules and such. But ymmv.

 

Just some more thoughts to add with all the others. :)

 

-Tim

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Go to the site, look through all of the minis, and take a quick pic through the rule book (all free to do, and it looks like you've already gotten this far).  As many have already said, the armies are pretty well balanced, so you're better off going with an army that you like from a fluff or aesthetic perspective.   I just got started too, and it took me 2 days to go from knowing nothing at all to having a base understanding of the game and buying my first minis.  Whichever faction you choose will have a solid starter set for ~$50 that can get you into the game.  


As far as tournament scene, you can expect to see it grow exponentially over the next year.  A truck-load of people are just getting started and the scene will develop along with the community.  Better to jump in now, as it definitely seems to be the new hot s*** in town.

 

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Thanks guys, you've all been helpful. I'm really liking what I'm hearing about balance in the game. I think the hard part will be actually deciding on a force to play, they all seem really interesting. Leaning towards a Yu Jing Imperial Secret Service right now. I didn't see it linked in the stickied posts but I thought id share this link I stumbled on last night. the guy has some really great sections on how to build lists from the starter boxes for each faction. Its been really helpful in explaining why you should take certain things and what they can do.

 

http://www.data-sphere.net

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Also personally I am not a super fan of metal miniatures, I love plastic. How nice are these metal miniatures to work with?

On a scale of easy-as-pie to I-wish-I-was-dead, these register at about a cleaning-the-bathroom.  

 

In all honesty, I hate metal as well.   The models I just got and assembled were definitely the best metal I have dealt with in terms or fitting together and overall quality.  They do have a pretty standard amount of flash that needs to be brushes, nipped, or sliced off before they can be put together, but it's not so bad.  Gaps are minimal, our of 6 models I have 2 spots that will need some putty.  I'd say each model took me 20-30 minutes to clean, prepare, and assemble.  

 

 

As DP just mentioned, some of the more delicate or outlandishly-poised models will do well to get some basic pinning.

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I prefer the weight/feel of metal figs, but plastic is -so- much easier to work with, for me. So, I like both, for different reasons.

 

Like Rudra and DP said, CB's metal figs can be 'challenging' to work with. Not all of them (some are simple one-piece models that just need typical cleaning/filing). And yes, some models definitely beg to be pinned.

 

That being said - you should only ever have to do this once with each fig. Paint, seal really well - and play play play! :)

 

As for the rulebook in the Icestorm/USARF boxes, they are basic rules/quickstart for the most part. The FULL rulebook is still available free as a PDF, or you can buy the -very- nicely full-color printed one.

 

-Tim

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Yu Jing Secret Service it is. The plan is to learn the game with just the starter box for the next few months but I wanted to build a 300pt list to sort of build towards and it'll give me a bunch of stuff to paint in the meantime. I've been doing a lot of reading the last few days and this is my first attempt at 300pts. any thoughts? 

 
logo_22.png Imperial Service
──────────────────────────────────────────────────
 
Group 1 sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png 10 orden_irregular.png0 orden_impetuosa.png3
logo_1.png CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
logo_1.png CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_1.png CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
logo_1.png CELESTIAL GUARD MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
logo_1.png CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
logo_10.png KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (5)
logo_10.png KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (5)
logo_10.png KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (5)
logo_7.png HSIEN Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 57)
logo_6.png WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (31)
 
Group 2 sep.gifsep.giforden_regular.png3 orden_irregular.png0 orden_impetuosa.png0
logo_8.png SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 55)
logo_4.png IMPERIAL AGENT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 34)
logo_17.png HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
 
7 SWC (+1) | 296 Points
 
 
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