fluger Posted November 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 The way I see it, assault in close combat (out of deepstrike) is the answer to things that rely on cover. You can't assault flying MCs for instance. But, yes, it does solve some significant issues. I really like the suggestion by winterman of using the demi-company in the Talon Formation to still have turn one assaults from the Strikeforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Here's what I came up with. I really like it. Everything is Ravenguard CT. Talon Strike Force: Demi-Battle Company: 743 Captain: 135 Auspex, Meltabombs, Bike, Power Axe 5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35 Meltagun, Combi-Melta Drop Pod 5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35 Meltagun, Combi-Melta Drop Pod 5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35 Meltagun, Combi-Melta Drop Pod 3 Space Marine Bikers: 93 2 Gravguns 5 Devastators: 140 4 Lascannons Shadowstrike Kill Team: 825 5 Scouts: 55 + 50 Bolters Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 5 Scouts: 55 + 50 Bolters Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 5 Scouts: 55 + 50 Bolters Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 10 Vanguard Vets: 255 2 Lightning Claws, 2 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 1 Meltabombs, Jump Packs 10 Vanguard Vets: 255 2 Lightning Claws, 2 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 1 Meltabombs, Jump Packs Raptor Wing: 280 1 Land Speeder: 50 2x Heavy Bolters 1 Stormtalon: 115 Skyhammer ML 1 Stormtalon: 115 Skyhammer ML 1848 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 You can't assault flying MCs for instance. Not with that attitude you can't! Can you explain some of your reasoning behind the Vanguard vet loadout? There are so many options, and I'm not as familiar with what works best with marines. Unfortunately, the Heresy-style all lightning claw jump troops are going to be a too pricey in 40k! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Can you explain some of your reasoning behind the Vanguard vet loadout? There are so many options, and I'm not as familiar with what works best with marines. Unfortunately, the Heresy-style all lightning claw jump troops are going to be a too pricey in 40k! Quick note, on Van Vets, a lightning claw is just 5 pts. The reasoning is giving me a variety of threat vectors. Lightning Claws are great against MEqs and anything T3 they wound more reliably than the power mauls. Power Mauls really help knocking out vehicles since I have 4 s6 attacks on the charge. They are also great at dealing with anything with 4+ or worse saves. S6 is clutch. Power Axes give me cheap AP2 in melee and a nice bump on S. They help clear through things like terminators or centurions or even MCs with 2+ saves. Meltabombs should be self explanatory. By having two units of 10, I can break up into 4 units of 5 with some various loadout options to help me go after different threats. 2 power mauls, the meltabombs, and two regular guys can form one team to go after vehicles, while the power axe/lightning claw guys can go after infantry. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Brilliant, thanks! I hadn't realized that LC were so cheap for vets. I'm guessing I'm looking at an older codex where they cost 15 points a pop? That's actually much more attractive. Hmmm.... Edit: I was looking at an older codex! Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Wah crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Brilliant, thanks! I hadn't realized that LC were so cheap for vets. I'm guessing I'm looking at an older codex where they cost 15 points a pop? That's actually much more attractive. Yeah, the change to make all power weapons only 5 pts a pop is GREAT. They are still probably too expensive for what they do though. RG CT makes them a smidge better with the consistent die reroll and hammer of wrath being more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Am I correct in assuming that if a Chaplain joins a Vanguard unit in this formation, than that unit can't benefit from these rules? And the same for the Skyhammer Annihilation Force? The Kill Team seems to specifically call out Vanguard Vets, while the Skyhammer talks about Assault Squads. I'm guessing that means no ICs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Am I correct in assuming that if a Chaplain joins a Vanguard unit in this formation, than that unit can't benefit from these rules? And the same for the Skyhammer Annihilation Force? The Kill Team seems to specifically call out Vanguard Vets, while the Skyhammer talks about Assault Squads. I'm guessing that means no ICs? ITC went with no ICs. It was a fairly big rules debate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Was? I'd think that would be one that still has a lot of people up in arms. Completely rad, though, if everyone settled down....and started arguing about the next hot thing lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 It did. We even had a lengthy debate here. I think the 'No ICs' is the better ruling for the game though. Otherwise you get some crazy ass crap. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Jim, if you've got 2+ hours to kill, the guys at Frontline just tried out the new Ravenguard vs the new Tau. Pregame info: HERE Ravenguard List Below Reece’s list: Raven Guard 1850pts Talon Strike Force Description Size Cost Pinion Battle Demi-Company Chaplain Raven’s Fury 1 105 Tactical Marines M.Gun, C.Melta 5 90 Tactical Marines M.Gun, C.Melta 5 90 Tactical Marines M.Gun, C.Melta 5 90 Assault Squad M.Bombs 5 90 Devstator Squad C.Melta 10 150 D.Pod – 1 35 Scouts M.Bombs 5 60 Scouts M.Bombs 5 60 Scouts M.Bombs 5 60 Shadowstrike Kill Team Scouts – 5 55 Scouts – 5 55 Vanguard J.Packs, Fist x 2, L.Claws x 2 10 260 Skyhammer Annihilation Force Assault Squad Vet Sarge, P.Axe 5 110 Assault Squad Vet Sarge, P.Axe 5 110 Devastator Squad H.Bolter x 4 10 180 Drop Pod – 1 35 Devastator Squad H.Bolter x 4 10 180 Drop Pod – 1 35 Totals 99 1850 Video Bat Rep: HERE Post Game Analysis: HERE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Alteration to the list to incorporate Lias Issodan and his tasty rules: Talon Strike Force: Demi-Battle Company: 743 Captain: 135 Auspex, Meltabombs, Bike, Power Axe 5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35 Meltagun, Combi-Melta Drop Pod 5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35 Meltagun, Combi-Melta Drop Pod 5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35 Meltagun, Combi-Melta Drop Pod 3 Space Marine Bikers: 93 2 Gravguns 5 Devastators: 110 4 Multimeltas Shadowstrike Kill Team: 825 5 Scouts: 55 + 50 Bolters Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 5 Scouts: 55 + 50 Bolters Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 5 Scouts: 55 + 50 Bolters Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 10 Vanguard Vets: 255 2 Lightning Claws, 2 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 1 Meltabombs, Jump Packs 10 Vanguard Vets: 255 2 Lightning Claws, 2 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 1 Meltabombs, Jump Packs CAD: 285 Raptors CT Lias Issodan: 175 5 Scouts: 55 Bolters 5 Scouts: 55 Bolters 1823 Everything in green is infiltrating and everything else is in reserve and either comes in automatically on turn 1 (the van vets and two drop pods/guys) except for one unit of tacticals and a pod, which comes in on turn 1 on a 3+ and on turn 3-4 on a 2+. 66% of the time my army is fully on the table on turn one. It's a great null deploy option and it's just awesome. Not sure if gaining infiltrate on a few units and Lias' great sabotaging skill (for those unaware of what he does, his rules are HERE) are worth losing air support, but it could be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'll check out the video later, but damn. I didn't realize the Devestators in the Skyhammer ALWAYS got that pinning/no overwatch rule. I had thought it was only the first turn. That's crazy good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Talon Strike Force: Demi-Battle Company: 743Captain: 135Auspex, Meltabombs, Bike, Power Axe5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35Meltagun, Combi-MeltaDrop Pod5 Tactical Marines: 90 + 35Meltagun, Combi-MeltaDrop Pod5 Tactical Marines: 80 + 35MeltagunDrop Pod3 Space Marine Bikers: 932 Gravguns5 Devastators: 1504 LascannonsShadowstrike Kill Team: 8255 Scouts: 55 + 50BoltersLand Speeder Storm: Multimelta5 Scouts: 55 + 50BoltersLand Speeder Storm: Multimelta5 Scouts: 55 + 50BoltersLand Speeder Storm: Multimelta10 Vanguard Vets: 2552 Lightning Claws, 2 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 1 Meltabombs, Jump Packs10 Vanguard Vets: 2552 Lightning Claws, 2 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 1 Meltabombs, Jump PacksRaptor Wing: 2801 Land Speeder: 502x Heavy Bolters1 Stormtalon: 115Skyhammer ML1 Stormtalon: 115Skyhammer ML1848 Edited the list because I did the devy points wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'll check out the video later, but damn. I didn't realize the Devestators in the Skyhammer ALWAYS got that pinning/no overwatch rule. I had thought it was only the first turn. That's crazy good. Yeah, it's bananas. And keeping it cheap with heavy bolters is a golden idea. With the drop pods and 36" range, they can cover the whole board for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I actually find that the Pinning thing works as a disadvantage in the later turns- they can never force an actual morale check that makes a unit fall back, which against a lot of small squads is more frightening than being pinned for a turn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Real Talk Zone: What Horus Heresy novels do I need to be reading to get stoked about Raven Guard? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I actually find that the Pinning thing works as a disadvantage in the later turns- they can never force an actual morale check that makes a unit fall back, which against a lot of small squads is more frightening than being pinned for a turn. Yeah this is true, forcing morale is clutch late game worth small smattering of fire going everywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Real Talk Zone: What Horus Heresy novels do I need to be reading to get stoked about Raven Guard? Deliverance Lost and the short story 'Raven's Flight'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I was just about to say. Also, Deliverance Lost touches on my other favorite Heresy Era force: Alpha Legion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I actually find that the Pinning thing works as a disadvantage in the later turns- they can never force an actual morale check that makes a unit fall back, which against a lot of small squads is more frightening than being pinned for a turn. Bit of a tangent, but that is something I have wondered about. It doesn't clearly state that this affect replaces the normal 25% casualty morale test. Could be argued that the skyhammer affect is in addition to the standard morale test. Not an argument I'd personally make, more of a thought puzzle in case it gets brought up in a tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 It doesn't clearly state that this affect replaces the normal 25% casualty morale test. A unit only ever makes one Morale test for casualties in a single phase- the Skyhammer ability thus functionally replaces the usual casualty test, as it will always trigger if you are shot at and its consequences explicitly take the place of the normal morale check consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Real Talk Zone: What Horus Heresy novels do I need to be reading to get stoked about Raven Guard? Mr. Graham, Horus Heresy novels that I recommend for a Raven Guard fix: * BOOK 5 - Fulgrim (just because of the brief section of Istvaan V, which sets a good tone) * BOOK 16 - Age of Darkness (anthology that has "The Face of Treachery" in it, about how the Raven Guard try to get their primarch Corax the heck off of Istvaan V) * BOOK 18 - Deliverance Lost (Istvaan V + Corax + the Emperor) * BOOK 22 - Shadows of Treachery (anthology that has "Raven's Flight" in it, about the Raven Guard on Istvaan V) * BOOK 23 - Angel Exterminatus (because there's a bad @$$ kill team with a Raven Guard in it that play a really cool part of this book) * BOOK 30 - The Damnation of Pythos (Raven Guard members in this regrouped mash up of loyalist legions) I have all (32) mass market paperback books if you want to borrow any of them. Stay safe, don 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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