Star war spoiler don't come here if you haven't seen it

[DisruptiveConduct]

How bout those bothans guys?

[smashthedean]

Wow, this thread made the ban run in less than 13 parsecs!

12 parsecs!

[Weav]

Who would have ever thought Keith would be the defender in an Ordo argument? Haha

[Talapas]

Getting back on topic, I really enjoyed it. Probably on the level of RotJ for me. Rey was an awesome addition to the Mythos and bb8 was a great character. Does it it have have flaws? Certainly, but it was enjoyable nonetheless. I've seen it twice already and will be going back this weekend probably.

[JMGraham]

I honestly have to watch Empire and A New Hope again to know how I'd rank things. Those have the benefit of nostalgia, but Force Awakens invoked plenty of that, as well. Force Awakens is certainly in my top 3, and might be in 2nd, or even (gasp!) 1st place. Have to watch it a lot more too know. And with that said, I'm looking forward to watching it a lot more.

[Mach_5]

Umm, it was 12 parsecs... Grumble grumble....

[InfestedKerrigan]

Wow, this thread made the ban run in less than 13 parsecs!

 

Welcome to fandom.

[Brother Glacius]

Wow, and I got read the riot act for telling someone to bite me or for them to go f themselves...can't remember which...but nothing like the rant that went off here. I can't believe this thread isn't locked. You have someone threatening other forum members. That became okay to do?

[InfestedKerrigan]

Eat, SH!T, F*CK, and you die.

 

FTFY

 

 

I haven't watched the movie in its entirety, yet.  Saving that for the big screen.  What I've seen of the first act is extremely A New Hope.  I'm hoping the Second Act redeems that feeling.  However, it has also got me curious about going in and watching it as a stand alone film, like 1977s Star Wars.  I think Han telling Ben that with great power comes great responsibility may cause some hiccups in this venture, though.  Kylo's tantrums make me happy, so far.  I am looking forward to the character growth with him as he learns to control his powers.  I hope (but don't hold my breath) that they don't redeem him.  Forget redemption, it's old news. 

 

As it is, I'm hard pressed to be excited about the franchise, anymore.  The Films blatant disregard of the Expanded Universe (both the prequals and now the new trilogy) is extremely off putting.  At least Marvel and DC have made attempts to reconcile the plethora of stories and ages they've created over time, without glossing it over and throwing it under the stairs.  I was vested in the fluff of the universe, reading novels for many years, enjoying the comics, etc. 

[Mr.MoreTanks]

FTFY

 

As it is, I'm hard pressed to be excited about the franchise, anymore. The Films blatant disregard of the Expanded Universe (both the prequals and now the new trilogy) is extremely off putting. At least Marvel and DC have made attempts to reconcile the plethora of stories and ages they've created over time, without glossing it over and throwing it under the stairs. I was vested in the fluff of the universe, reading novels for many years, enjoying the comics, etc.

The EU is just too big and a ton of it conflicts. Honestly, it's probably better that Disney opted to cut all of it. Kind of annoying as a fan, but pretty reasonable and to be expected.

[smashthedean]

Yeah, I read a lot of EU stuff growing up and really loved a lot of it, but there was also a lot that was just bad and it would have really hurt them to try to stick to all of that with a movie. Plus this is just going to make the Grand Admiral Thrawn reveal even better whenever they do it.

[Burk]

Wow, and I got read the riot act for telling someone to bite me or for them to go f themselves...can't remember which...but nothing like the rant that went off here. I can't believe this thread isn't locked. You have someone threatening other forum members. That became okay to do?

Mod note.  Any moderation actions taken are not discussed on the forums.  The discussion otherwise is fruitful, so the thread is still open.  

 

Actions against the COC (code of conduct, you all agreed to by joining) are not tolerated.

 

Thank you.

[Duckman]

And clearly the thread is not locked in the hope that we can continue a solid discussion on the original topic which actually merits it.

 

As for putting The Force Awakens above the original trilogy, I just can't do it.  I'm not going to evaluate the original trilogy on writing or acting and just admit that it probably has a lot to do with nostalgia but the whole point of The Force Awakens was to return to the camp / style / fanboi past and reestablish the franchise in that vein and to get past the baggage of the past 20 years.  I'll even go so far as to agree with Gail and say that the writing is pretty sub-par (although I would pick different nits) but the point is that it has some shining moment aimed straight at the fanboi (i.e. me) and that it has some really solid moments like Han's death which is foreshadowed, emotional, consistent and well-acted by both parties.

 

I can only hope that our shiny, silver Stormtrooper comes back later after having escaped from the trash compactor so that we can actually enjoy her as a villain.  Otherwise this is another case of Darth Maul...  A really cool concept who is so badly used as to become so forgettable that I HAD TO LOOK UP HIS NAME TO POST IT RIGHT NOW.  Talk about terrible writing...  Was she supposed to be a major antagonist?

[Mach_5]

Disney has announced Cpt Phasma will be back next movie. Hope they give her a little more spine and a lot more awesome next go round.

[smashthedean]

I love the original trilogy, including Jedi, and I'd probably put Force Awakens at a solid #3 spot. So for reference:

 

#1 Empire

#2 New Hope

#3 Force Awakens

#4 Jedi

[insert huge gap in quality]

#5 Sith

#6 Clones

#7 Phantom Menace

[Iraf]

I love the original trilogy, including Jedi, and I'd probably put Force Awakens at a solid #3 spot. So for reference:

 

#1 Empire

#2 New Hope

#3 Force Awakens

#4 Jedi

[insert huge gap in quality]

#5 Sith

#6 Clones

#7 Phantom Menace

What are #5-7? I've never heard of them.

[smashthedean]

I was just making up words. Drunk on the eggnog already apparently.

[Iraf]

I've read around 2/3 of the Star Wars Novels. And although I enjoyed most of them, I found most of the writing to be subpar.

 

I was hoping though, that they would have a bit more carry over. Like when Han yells "Ben!" At his son. I was really hoping for "Jacen!"

[Jay]

I can't help but wonder if the similar ideas found in the movies and the old EU were a simply a convergence likely ideas. 

[dkieft]

The EU is just too big and a ton of it conflicts. Honestly, it's probably better that Disney opted to cut all of it. Kind of annoying as a fan, but pretty reasonable and to be expected.

I gave up on that trash so long ago. I mean yes, there were good books, good stories and good ideas, but by the time there were around 20 books it was already getting diluted with crap. I can't imagine how terrible it became more recently.

 

Imagine trying to fit a new movie into that... ick. Thank god for it getting tossed.

[dkieft]

Disney has announced Cpt Phasma will be back next movie. Hope they give her a little more spine and a lot more awesome next go round.

Pretty sure she was a set up for more role. I hear a lot of "why did she drop the shields so easy". I wonder if she also has doubts or is some how an agent? Just speculation... probably not.

[King Mekhet]

Watched the movie this afternoon, after marathoning the original cut trilogy, so here's some thoughts while it's all fresh:

 

PROS: Rey was the highlight of the movie for me. Well-cast, well-written, well-developed. I like how we see her as a badass right off the bat, and how they indirectly showed how her latent force powers bled into all her other abilities. Cool.

 

I liked *aspects* of how they paralleled ANH. A good mix of old and new, paying tribute to the original trilogy while ushering in the new Disney era. The thematic parallels were the better part (except for some bits, which fall into the con category).

 

Rylo Ken was a good antagonist. He captured well the sort of person who would fall to the dark side, without the cartoonish evil that Darth Vader sometimes fell into.

 

Good mix of humour and seriousness. Thought the movie took itself a little too serious in the beginning, but they let off on the humour in the middle and brought it back in line.

 

CONS: Some of the fan service was a bit excessive and clumsy, especially some of the Han Solo and Millenium Falcon bits. Some of the scenes with Rey and Han in the Falcon felt like bad fanfic, Rey standing in for that inner child of ours who really just wanted to hang with Solo in the cockpit of the Falcon and gush about how much we loved him and his ship.

 

The Bigger-Better-Death-Star jumped the shark a bit too. I mean...it was cool and [big bad swear word], but JJ Abrams really needs to learn how to direct a movie where the fate of the entire [big bad swear word]ing universe isn't at stake. Which leads me to my biggest criticism...

 

...the pacing. It felt like they crammed a good 20% too much action into this movine. It could have really benefited from slowing down just a bit more, letting the audience take in the sights a bit. The original trilogy was so awesome because it made the whole universe seem really real, whereas TFA relied too heavy on familiarity to accomplish the same thing.

 

 

VERDICT: Solid 8.5/10. If I were to rank it objectively in terms of quality, I'd probably drop it below Empire but above A New Hope. Yeah it was cheesy at times, and the science didn't aways make sense, and there were plot holes abound...but that's Star Wars. I think much of the criticism of this movie comes from people who have placed the original trilogy on an unassailable pedestal. They're very flawed movies...but that's part of their charm. They great in part because they *dont'* take themselves too seriously. Because they *don't* let hard science get in the way of a cool visual effect. It's a space fantasy, replete with knights and wizards and magic.

[Guest]

the science didn't aways make sense.

I was so glad they didn't try to make it make sense. I recall the blunder of Episode 1, where Obi-wan's master is explaining the force with science.....so much fail.

[Duckman]

I was so glad they didn't try to make it make sense. I recall the blunder of Episode 1, where Obi-wan's master is explaining the force with science.....so much fail.

 

This ship made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs.  o.0

Star Wars has never been about the science.  Ships flying in vacuum like they have air.  Ships flying in air like drag is fiction.  None of this is why we *care* about Star Wars.  Plasma passing through an atmosphere?  The mass of a star vanishing into a planet with no repercussions?  Ask me if I care.  If you have not turned that part of your brain off at the door you're doing it wrong.  (And I'll point out that Mekhet mentions it in an aside, not as a con so I think he's ok with that.)

 

I think Kehmet voiced it well when he commented on the parallels to A New Hope.  *That's* what made this fit so well into the Star Wars universe for me.  Heck, I didn't even mind Rei going all fangrl on the Falcon.  I took that as more of the "jedi as mechnical prodigy" which they made clear without beating to death (I mean, there was no pod race or anything!).  In short, I glossed over a bunch of things that people seem hung up on because I accept that jedi react differently to things because they can feel the force (e.g. the hug between Leia and Rei at the end).

[King Mekhet]

This ship made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs.  o.0

Star Wars has never been about the science.  Ships flying in vacuum like they have air.  Ships flying in air like drag is fiction.  None of this is why we *care* about Star Wars.  Plasma passing through an atmosphere?  The mass of a star vanishing into a planet with no repercussions?  Ask me if I care.  If you have not turned that part of your brain off at the door you're doing it wrong.  (And I'll point out that Mekhet mentions it in an aside, not as a con so I think he's ok with that.)

 

I think Kehmet voiced it well when he commented on the parallels to A New Hope.  *That's* what made this fit so well into the Star Wars universe for me.  Heck, I didn't even mind Rei going all fangrl on the Falcon.  I took that as more of the "jedi as mechnical prodigy" which they made clear without beating to death (I mean, there was no pod race or anything!).  In short, I glossed over a bunch of things that people seem hung up on because I accept that jedi react differently to things because they can feel the force (e.g. the hug between Leia and Rei at the end).

Yeah that's exactly what I was trying to say: Star Wars is a light, fun, fantasy space adventure. It is not meant to be taken so seriously. Elements like the Death Star are meant to be awesome, thematic, and evocative, not critically analyzed for whether they're technically feasible. Same thing with Rei's technical prowess...I took this pretty clearly to be a manifestation of her force powers, and again something meant to be cool and not really scrutinized at 1000x magnification.

 

The hug at the end I also saw very differently apparently. Leia is hoping against hope to see Han returning with her son. She waits expectantly as Finn and Chewie exit, not saying anything. But when Rei walks off the Falcon, nobody coming after her and with that sad look on her face, Leia knows what's up. But she's a mother, a general, and a career politician and leader...her first instinct isn't to see to herself, but to comfort Rei's obvious pain and grief first. And so the two shared a hug, mutually grieving the loss of someone they both cared for.