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Anyone else still waiting for AOS to fail and for us to get back to normality?


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Am i the only one who still sees this potentially happening? Or is it fixed now that multilayered in-depth fantasy gaming from GW just isn't happening anymore? 

 

Before anyone asks, I tried AOS about 15 games and it just wasn't fantasy for me.

 

I really do believe that due to the awful sales of AOS (One of my local stores is now contemplating sending all of the fantasy stuff back and the other doesn't stock fantasy stuff anymore) that something has got to give eventually. If GW keeps pumping out new releases for AOS and sales are still awful how bad does it need to get before GW realize their mistake? 

 

 

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I look locally and see Dice age who stocked fantasy for years pretty much stop completely and Mythic Realms now considering sending all their fantasy stock back. I see that as Sales are pretty bad. Sure its a localized view of sales but still a view. 

Last time I was at DAG, they had plenty of fantasy. Not sure about MR though.

 

That being said, it is a local thing. I'd like to see some company numbers before declaring it dead.

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Go and take a recent look at Dice age. LOL their whole area for fantasy is now gone and replaced with D&D mini's. I don't think Roy will be getting any new stock in either. As for MR i don't think they have anywhere near the sales to justify having a 6ft x 8ft wall of the stuff doing nothing hence why it can't be selling well. 

 

I would love to see numbers on sales and see what it takes to be profitable for GW and what it takes for them to give up? 

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Go and take a recent look at Dice age. LOL their whole area for fantasy is now gone and replaced with D&D mini's. I don't think Roy will be getting any new stock in either. As for MR i don't think they have anywhere near the sales to justify having a 6ft x 8ft wall of the stuff doing nothing hence why it can't be selling well. 

I think this is two data points in a global market. Hard to extrapolate.

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And you probably don't want to see them give up AOS, because then there wouldn't be anything left for  fantasy at GW.

 

To be honest it wouldn't really matter, without a decent ruleset all they are currently selling (to me) is weird and wonderful models. GW Fantasy for me died with the last book of the end of times. 

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GG still has a big stock of Fantasy/AOS....Nexus games has old stock of random Fantasy and a few new AOS releases in limited quantity. As far as the popularity of either....it is hard to say. No Fantasy/AOS being played at Nexus and a bit at Guardian. It is kind of hard to figure out if AOS will be around much longer. The price points on AOS keep going on the level of 40K if not much higher. 

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As much as I would love to see AoS return to something more closely resembling WHFB, my gut feeling is that we won't see that happening. I think between GW being "all in" on AoS this year (supposedly this year is going to see more AoS releases that 40k, if rumors are to be believed) and the number of players that they hemorrhaged over to other gaming system when they blew up the old world, I think a more likely scenario would be for them to just kill of AoS / WHFB than try and rebrand it a 3rd time, or maybe hand it over to the specialist studio? That is assuming that AoS is doing worse than WHFB. That seems to be the case locally, but I've heard AoS has been better received in the Uk than in the US (source: I don't know, I think I heard it on a podcast).

 

Sorry, a lot of "I think" or "I heard," but just my impressions. 

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i actually was ok with some of the end times stuff as it was an interesting twist(beastmen becoming relevant but then kicking non-allied forces to the curb), but AoS is a sad facepalm.  The lack of structure really shows how little GW cares about the game aspect in their freaking name and more just about 'ooo look at this dwarf riding a fire lizard and flying angel empire-esque space marines' type of ADHD model output.  Its boring.  They killed off a great game for little reason.  Most fantasy players were gearing up to start a new army(I was) with the new edition and now we are all selling our armies off for pennies of what we paid for them.  Its depressing.  I will forever despise GW for their lack of effort in satisfying their customers.  Duardin and Orroks?  you have got to be [big bad swear word]ing kidding me i feel stupid for even reading those knock off words... only the most loyal GW fans can eat that turd up...  They are a horrible company out of touch/reality with their fans.  its pathetic.  aight ill fade away again as my bitterness has obviously resurfaced lol.... ugh

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How about its bad enough for GW to change their overstock policy, no more returns for credit since aos was released. Other distribution might accept it but straight from Memphis changed its rules.

 

Idk, i think the best we can hope for is 8th rules to be put into public domain or specialist game living ruleset

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GW is wiping out its WFB lines as fast as they can. So no, I don't see WFB coming back from GW. The best I think you can hope from GW is that they create a new version of AoS that doesn't have its head up its ass. I like many of the concepts in AoS. But the lack of points and balance just kills it. And honestly, the direction that the models are going is really hit or miss. In general, I don't like what they are doing. AoS is like this big hot mess.

 

I am super bummed that 8th has died out completely. That really surprised me that players were so quick to abandon it. I know that 9th age is out there, but every time I read some of it, it seems like such a departure from 8th. I didn't want a new edition. I would have been able to support it if it had been more of just tweaks.

 

Thankfully I do enjoy playing KoW. I just wish I could find time to play it more.

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GW made their decision. There is no going back. Even if they did, they lost 70 percent of the WHFB base. That group will not come  back. They need to develop a new customer base, but their new corporate approach only looks to produce and sell. They do not support their customer base. GW nickels and dimes for everything and overcharges. They do not give back. Worse, they destroyed their whole IP and world to try to make more money. Why care about a game when the company does not. 

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I guess it goes down to the fluff and the game being such a major addiction of mine for over 25 years that I'm still bitter that it was taken away from me. I sold off one of my larger armies last week and will probably do the same with my remaining armies as the fluff and story was my major draw into it in the first place. Destroying their IP in my eyes was possibly the stupidest thing the company has done so far. Price hikes etc and finest were all awful decisions from GW but i honestly can't see how throwing 25 years plus away over night has helped them earn more money.

 

Why not keep the Old World and produce armies for Nippon or Araby, Hinterlands armies, Cathay Armies, Giant armies of Albion, Pirate Armies of the Great Ocean. So much left to explore and use existing fluff and IP to introduce awesome new armies into the Warhammer world but no lets blow everything up and create portals into realms and make space marine type guys. GW deserves the lack of folk going into AOS but it won't stop me from being bitter still months after.  

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Meh, given how GW's been doing things, I keep waiting for 40k to topple along with AoS.

 

GW made their decision. There is no going back. Even if they did, they lost 70 percent of the WHFB base. That group will not come  back. They need to develop a new customer base, but their new corporate approach only looks to produce and sell. They do not support their customer base. GW nickels and dimes for everything and overcharges. They do not give back. Worse, they destroyed their whole IP and world to try to make more money. Why care about a game when the company does not. 

I think AoS is worse than 4th ed D&D and was a bigger loss to the community.

 

What they did is as you say, it's too corporate for a new game, stuff costs too much, and they knickel and time everything. Their new IP isn't something I'm interested in, a lacking world devoid of fantasy.

 

That said, I bought and love those new Castle kits for chaos. I've tried to play AoS many times, but the game doesn't appeal anymore.

 

I've been playing pathfinder society and I'm slowly boxing up all my model-related messes (projects) at home.

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Most stores here in Seattle area are stocking little to no AoS stuff as well.  Mox Boarding House put all their fantasy and AoS stuff on clearance.  Games and Gizmos stocks very little.  I understand we are just a small portion of the market so it might not mean much tho.  I did just think of this:  If sales are the same as they were and prices have been jacked up by quite a bit doesnt that mean they are moving fewer models?

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 I did just think of this:  If sales are the same as they were and prices have been jacked up by quite a bit doesnt that mean they are moving fewer models?

Prices really aren't any higher than their 40k equivalents. If anything, some of the kits seem cheaper than in the past.

 

GW's got Chaos Knights currently up in a 10-pack for $60. That's $6 per chaotic knightly horseman. The Chaos Warriors are currently $40 per 16, making them $2.50 each.

 

As opposed to Chaos Space Marines which are 10 for $39, making them $3.90 per model. With Chaos bikers coming in at 3 for $40, or $13.33 each, despite being older sculpts and using less plastic than the current AoS/WHFB chaos knights.

 

Granted, I think the CSM kits have more customization potential, not to mention better rules support (sad when chaos 40k has better rules support than anyone...). But still, I think complaining about AoS being too expensive is only meaningful in the context of GW being too expensive as a whole. As far as GW products go, AoS is cheap.

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Am i the only one who still sees this potentially happening? Or is it fixed now that multilayered in-depth fantasy gaming from GW just isn't happening anymore? 

 

Before anyone asks, I tried AOS about 15 games and it just wasn't fantasy for me.

 

I really do believe that due to the awful sales of AOS (One of my local stores is now contemplating sending all of the fantasy stuff back and the other doesn't stock fantasy stuff anymore) that something has got to give eventually. If GW keeps pumping out new releases for AOS and sales are still awful how bad does it need to get before GW realize their mistake?

I dont usually pop over to this room as Im not into 9th age or the past editions of fantasy,but I did notice your topic and being a player/collector of AoS I may be able to add some perspective here.

 

First off,no you are certainly not the only one that sees the possibility of "AoS failing".I visit the regular forum sites and know all too well of this very thing in regards to how AoS is doing.GW being the size of company that it is,I wouldnt count on AoS failing any time soon.And if it did,I would look for GW in general to just throw in the towell,that wouldnt be a good thing for 40k players.Yes,I do believe that GW is "Too big to fail",mainly becuase its the biggest toy soldier buisness in the world.

 

As to a possible next version of the game from AoS,,I have seen nothing in the AoS forums nor on facebook.I believe that the reasoning put forth for the big change to AoS was that the previous editions had poor sales and too high an entry cost.Now with AoS,its certainly not cheap by any stretch but still in the range of 200 to 300.00 for a good playable army depending on what your group is running of course.

Also the past ruleset was certainly much more daunting for new players,I know I found it challenging just trying to remember everything,were is AoS is lolrules!..they did a 180 on that one,heh.

So I would have to say that yes,GW is done with the multilayer in-depth fantasy thing.

 

Not surprised that you tried it and didnt like it,its certainly nothing like WHFB was.Its way closer to 40k than WHFB.I happened to like both but actually liked AoS from the start because of it becoming more like 40k,mainly because those fantasy rules were a bit much for me.Im not gonna lie,,my days of indepth games with extensive stat tracking and multiple charts are long gone...maybe its true about all that stuff ya smoke fries your brain cells,lol

My son has even mentioned to me how he likes a bit more indepth games,but he still likes to throw down some plastic and rolls some dice AoS style:)

 

On the topic of sales and its popularity.As has been mentioned its gaining a strong foothold in the UK,,not really surpising as I think WHFB was much stronger in England than in the states?.

Dan Heelan is running the SCGT that will be happening in a few weeks and at this point they have over 150 entrants signed up for it.

Warhammer world has been putting on regular monthly(or every 6-8 week) events for AoS drawing from 15-35 or so entrants.

Adepticon will be hosting 3 AoS events I believe,no numbers on entrants for those thus far though.

Those are the events that come to mind right now.

Most of my posting activity outside of our forums here is on Facebook pages were AoS is gaining some sizable communities.The main one is a closed AoS forum that currently has 3250 or so members,though when I joined it about 6 weeks back it had under 2000.Also I keep up with some of the composition authors like Auticus and his Azyr comp.

I can say from facebook postings that the game is really gaining traction in the states and in Europe,lots of posts about players playing in shop tournaments as well as garage hammer.

 

Really though,the game is as much about the hobby of building,and painting as it is about playing.GW is targeting collectors and with the model quality of the AoS run,I can see why as many are top notch.AoS is a collectable model building hobby with a game attatched to it.AoS players are much less interested in hard line competition and more into the fluff aspects of the game,playing battleplans that follow a story line,,,stuff like that:)

 

From what im seeing on facebook and reddit, there really is this active collector/modelbuilder community that digs these kinds of things.Hell I know of at least 3 of my regular customers here in Portland that collect 40k but have no interest in playing the game.It may very well be the collectors that keep GW alive for years to come.

 

In the long run I wouldnt be surpised to see GW release additional rulesets for AoS,possibly a campaign system,or maybe even a more competative ruleset similar to what they did with the school league rules.But none of these will be anything like what WHFB was,and more just adding a few layers to the existing stuff.And they likely will never release an official point system,,if they did most players probably woundnt use it anyway as the fan comps are all pretty solid right now.

 

So Splinx,I dont see AoS failing but that certainly doesnt mean that the WHFB group cant get back to "Normality".Its probably just going to take some more time for you guys to gel into some of the great games that are on the market now.Its a great time to try out some new game experiences:)

 

Oh,and I wouldnt be soo hasty to sell off your fantasy stuff,,AoS and KoW will keep your values up especially as GW cycles through the armies over the next few years.

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Prices really aren't any higher than their 40k equivalents. If anything, some of the kits seem cheaper than in the past.

 

GW's got Chaos Knights currently up in a 10-pack for $60. That's $6 per chaotic knightly horseman. The Chaos Warriors are currently $40 per 16, making them $2.50 each.

 

As opposed to Chaos Space Marines which are 10 for $39, making them $3.90 per model. With Chaos bikers coming in at 3 for $40, or $13.33 each, despite being older sculpts and using less plastic than the current AoS/WHFB chaos knights.

 

Granted, I think the CSM kits have more customization potential, not to mention better rules support (sad when chaos 40k has better rules support than anyone...). But still, I think complaining about AoS being too expensive is only meaningful in the context of GW being too expensive as a whole. As far as GW products go, AoS is cheap.

i was comparing the new  AoS model prices to what fantasy prices used to be not current 40k prices.

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On the topic of sales and its popularity.As has been mentioned its gaining a strong foothold in the UK,,not really surpising as I think WHFB was much stronger in England than in the states?.

Dan Heelan is running the SCGT that will be happening in a few weeks and at this point they have over 150 entrants signed up for it.

Warhammer world has been putting on regular monthly(or every 6-8 week) events for AoS drawing from 15-35 or so entrants.

Adepticon will be hosting 3 AoS events I believe,no numbers on entrants for those thus far though.

Those are the events that come to mind right now.

Most of my posting activity outside of our forums here is on Facebook pages were AoS is gaining some sizable communities.The main one is a closed AoS forum that currently has 3250 or so members,though when I joined it about 6 weeks back it had under 2000.Also I keep up with some of the composition authors like Auticus and his Azyr comp.

I can say from facebook postings that the game is really gaining traction in the states and in Europe,lots of posts about players playing in shop tournaments as well as garage hammer.

 

Just because I play a decent amount of KoW online and speak to people over in Europe, my understanding is that 8th was already losing ground to KoW there so it wasn't as big of a shock when it died out. The group plays KoW for the nice well balanced rank and file game with simple rules and depth and plays AoS (with those models) for a completely different style of game. They don't look for AoS to replace 8th, that is what KoW is for. 

 

If you look at it this way from GW perspective their plan made sense, regardless if we all hate it. 

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Just because I play a decent amount of KoW online and speak to people over in Europe, my understanding is that 8th was already losing ground to KoW there so it wasn't as big of a shock when it died out. The group plays KoW for the nice well balanced rank and file game with simple rules and depth and plays AoS (with those models) for a completely different style of game. They don't look for AoS to replace 8th, that is what KoW is for. 

 

If you look at it this way from GW perspective their plan made sense, regardless if we all hate it.

Have you been playing KoW on Vassel?...wondering as I always thought the game would work very well for the Vassel system and getting practice games in:)

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