40k admech and lords of war slot

[derek]

Hey guys does anybody know if you can use cult mechanicus as a basic CAD or do you have to use the book detachment. Im looking into a model that i wanna use for them and i cant see anything about the itc banning it but might be a table flipper. Im assuming youd only have to use the tech priest dominus and 2 units of kataphrons and call it good yea?

[derek]

Ok. Thank you. Has anyone looked at the lord of war released by forgeworld that has permission for both 40k amd 30k its a big tank thing that in practice might be useless in 40k but i feel like the first time it fires will cause people to certainly get pissed about its pure awesome rule set

[WestRider]

Given how huge of an area it can swamp with Ignores Cover firepower, I'm kind of expecting the Ordinatus Ulator to get an ITC ban, sort of like how most Torrent Hellstorm weapons have.

[winterman]

It is already banned in ITC, as it is not on the allowed LoW list.

[derek]

Where does it show its banned in the faq?

[derek]

I think its time to revisit that whole hellstorm template amd banning things. Given where the game has gone with space wolves being able to potentially pull off turn 1 assaults and stuff i think some stiff with the ability to instamt death would be nice. The ulator is actually tame with its weapon as it wounds on a chart showing the strength against certain units. Yes it oes 72 inches but hey

[fluger]

Where does it show its banned in the faq?

It isn't a ban list, it's a list of allowed things.  So, if it isn't on the list of things that are allowed, it isn't allowed. 

[pretre]

Also, the FAQ doesn't cover allowed/not allowed. Just the format.

[derek]

I stand by my thought on ot should be allowed compared to wjats out there now this tank that gives up quite a few kill points is pretty tame. Also considering its 1075 points its not exactly the easiest thing to want to take. It sounds deadly on paper but could be a massive point sink if you dont get a good firing ark or anything

[MikhailLenin]

I think its time to revisit that whole hellstorm template amd banning things. Given where the game has gone with space wolves being able to potentially pull off turn 1 assaults and stuff i think some stiff with the ability to instamt death would be nice. The ulator is actually tame with its weapon as it wounds on a chart showing the strength against certain units. Yes it oes 72 inches but hey

I am sorry but a Superheavy/Gargantuan that has the ability to fire a weapon that can straight up remove large swath of models is dumb. Not because of the gun or because of the core issue with 40k mechanically speaking.

 

A first turn charge army requires a multitude of elements to happen to work. Secondly assault has lot more counter than shooting in the form of defensive play.

 

That LOW you are talking about isnt just stupid in shooting but also straight up stupid in defensive powess. Its ability to reduce strentgh of weapons shooting basically makes it impossible to counter for a lot of armies.

[derek]

So s5 against infantry is stupid? Its a strong lord of war but honestly im sick of the stupid unkillable deathstars that have been popping up more and more and im honestly just sick of the damn wraithknight. Yea i want 1 thing that can pound on a wraithknight it also has potential to kill whole swaths of my army as well. Its strongest against things like the wraithknight and imperial knights and other titans but seriously oh no s5 ap2 ignores cover instant death on a 6 against anything not an mc or vehicle dude im sorry and dont take this as being rude because thats the last thing i want to have but really thats the worst thing out there? Yea it can basically ignore melta weapons and lascannons but necrons and anything with mass haywire will still stomp on it get to combat and wreck it cauae its only defensively strong against ranged weapons. And yes i agree its stupid to an extent but until its actually been played on a table by frontline or at a major tournament where it absolutely dominates and just kicks ass amd takes names dont give me the its super over powered speech.

[derek]

And its reduced strength is only strongest for 2 turns sorry man but i dont think its insane to think itd be anfair thing against the new [big bad swear word] out there

[MikhailLenin]

So s5 against infantry is stupid? Its a strong lord of war but honestly im sick of the stupid unkillable deathstars that have been popping up more and more and im honestly just sick of the damn wraithknight. Yea i want 1 thing that can pound on a wraithknight it also has potential to kill whole swaths of my army as well. Its strongest against things like the wraithknight and imperial knights and other titans but seriously oh no s5 ap2 ignores cover instant death on a 6 against anything not an mc or vehicle dude im sorry and dont take this as being rude because thats the last thing i want to have but really thats the worst thing out there? Yea it can basically ignore melta weapons and lascannons but necrons and anything with mass haywire will still stomp on it get to combat and wreck it cauae its only defensively strong against ranged weapons. And yes i agree its stupid to an extent but until its actually been played on a table by frontline or at a major tournament where it absolutely dominates and just kicks ass amd takes names dont give me the its super over powered speech.

 

 

If your plan against an unkillable deathstar is too kill it, you are doing it wrong Derek. There is so many ways to play around a Deathstar. Also a lot of those Deathstar really require going first to be unkillable. I dont know man, all I am hearing in your moaning is that to solve Cancer you need to Nuke it.

[MikhailLenin]

Forgot to add Derek: Has a 4++ stock and armored ceramite (Ignoring Melta Armorbane)

Turn 1 its -3 Str and -3 on the D table roll to any shooting attack.
Turn 2 its -2 Str and -2 on the D table roll to any shooting attack,

Turn 3 its -1 Str and -1 on the D table roll to any shooting attack.

Its AV 14/13/13 with 14 HP.

Turn 1 its AV17/16/16 with a 4++ to any non D Shooting / Turn 1 D Weapons shooting can only inflict D3 HP if it rolls 5+ and it still gets 4++
Turn 2 its AV16/15/15 with a 4++ to any non D Shooting / Turn 2 D Weapons shooting can only inflict D3 HP if it rolls 4+ and it still gets 4++.
Turn 3 its AV15/14/14 with a 4++ to any non D Shooting / Turn 3 D Weapons shooting can only inflict D3 HP if it rolls 3+ and it still gets 4++.

HOW THE SHAZBOT is that not OP defensively. 

Its a Super Heavy, meaning that it can always fire and never be immobilized. 

[derek]

I feel like itd be an answer and drive people to not play the dumb same op [big bad swear word] all the time. I am gonna get it for 30k but itll never be allowed below 4400 points. At that point people are bringing primarchs abd titans amd other stuff. I just dont feel like its as amazing as it sounds on paper. Its strong wont lie and im not trying to complain but the death stars are really just a buzzkill to a game of what should be fun

[derek]

Im not trying to disagree with you about it being defensively strong i know it is. But its gun isnt that strong until it hits vehicles amd super heavies of any sort. Sonce theres so much eternal warrior running around its not as crazy good as it should be

[derek]

Im not trying to disagree with you about it being defensively strong i know it is. But its gun isnt that strong until it hits vehicles amd super heavies of any sort. Sonce theres so much eternal warrior running around its not as crazy good as it should be to me its you bring cut throat crap ok so will i

[TW_Haines]

Eternal warrior is only out there in a few models most army's only have 1 like Gazzy or Abbadon. Exception Space wolves have Logan Arjack and lonewolves.

I find Eternal warrior hard to bring as a Ork player.

As for that tank only think in my arsenal that can kill it is a stompa, or my whole army in assault. That kind of shooting will net first blood and slay the warlord on most ork lists. Biker boss no jink, Maga Armor spat.

TW

[winterman]

Selection Criteria: We use the following guidelines to determine which Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature LoW are allowed into the ITC format. A LoW choice is allowed so long as it does not violate any of the following:

• It has a larger than 5″ blast D Weapon.
• It has a Hellstorm Template weapon with Torrent.
• It has a larger than 5″ blast weapon that ignores cover.
• Is a Super Heavy Flyer or Flying Gargantuan Creature.
• It has a “Titan” stat line. We mean by this LoW that have a stat line similar to or better than any of the Titan class Super Heavy Vehicles (Warhound, Revenant, etc.), Titan class Gargantuan Creatures (Hierophant), or Daemon Lords.

 

If they allowed titans and the like then I'd say the Ulator would be appropriate.  Since they don't then it's not appropriate for the format.

 

Also are you seriously suggesting admech and/or skitarii not having tools to deal with IKs and wraithknights unless you take this titan sized tank?  Is this a troll post and I missed it?

[derek]

Ive never played with skitarii or admech. Please drop the attitude bud. Not trying to sound negative or butt hurt but gotta say you allow things like the super undercosted wraithknight and the 2 forgeworld versions as well. You allow super friend deathstars you allow all the other super killy [big bad swear word]. One tank that costs over 50% of the army i would seriously expect it to do alot of damage. As ive never really paid close attention to the li.its of lords of war thank you for enlightening me. Again not t9 sound rude or negative but i dont appreciate being called a troll when its seriously a debate not an argument

[galahad911]

Derek, who are you playing against that is roflstomping you all the time with deathstars to have you be so salty about them? Are the people you're playing against regularly totally unwilling to do anything else? Maybe your issue is more along the lines of that you're playing against a group of d-bags. Really though, what ML said is the actual answer to the typical deathstar army builds. Kill everything else and win on the objectives. That unit can't hold more than 1 at a time and the vast majority of the deathstars out there don't have ObSec. Instead of introducing even bigger beatsticks that will be game breakingly OP against an opponent who isn't bringing the deathstar build, why not learn to play around them? The first time you fielded one of these things against, for instance a tyranid army and it killed a third to half of the bug army every shooting phase, you would be doing to that person what the deathstars are seemingly doing to you. Do you really want to be "TFG" just because someone else is pooping in your Cheerios? Let's break the cycle of d-baggery!

[derek]

So normally my opponents are war convocation and a bike star.

 

The bike star has a command squad a Chaplain a chapter master 2 ironclad dreads in dreadnought drop pods 2 units of scouts and a fire raptor hes now added some space wolves stuff as well to kinda add to the pool of super annoying things to fight.

 

My normal armies are raven guard or orks. Orks i have decimated him with a big mek stompa but i just dont wanna use it all the time i know itc allows it and all but theres something about that always being my im gonna win cause you cant kill it in shooting that just bugs me. After thinking about it yes its dirty its ridiculous its super op for the player using it to have a model that for 99% of shooting from any army it wont get killed.

 

No the guy i play isnt really a douche hes just trying to master his list for lvo next year and i dont blame him he wants to be good so no worries but sometimes you just wanna bring something just once or twice to decimate the list and then come back and try and work with other options.

[winterman]

Ive never played with skitarii or admech. Please drop the attitude bud. 

I'm not your bud, guy!  (shameless South Park reference to lighten the mood) 

 

 

I didn't say you were a troll just that your post might be trolling.  To be fair consistently poor spelling, arguing the same thing over and over, including swear words left and right -- pretty classic troll behavior that makes it hard to see this as a serious discussion.  I certainly didn't have anything close to the bad attitude you have displayed in this thread (f this, f that, stupid this and that)... , but I hit a nerve so I do genuinely apologize for missing the serious discussion.

 

Back to the discussion.

 

If you are gonna buy the model anyways and all you wanna do is school your buddy with it then if he agrees to the game then why not, ITC allowance or no?  But if you want to build a serious legal ITC list, either with RG or Orks then that's a whole other discussion and one worth having.  I know Mikhail has ideas on how to make RG work and I am also working on RG for ITC play. 

 

[derek]

So dont think i ever said the f word. And my phone has really terrible auto correct so the things that were misspelled are not intentional or anything. I really have been calm with the entire conversation i apologize if it comes off as harsh with a bad attitude but no i was genuinely just stating what i think. Never tried to troll or anything

[galahad911]

I can totally understand your frustration when it comes to incredibly resilient units and the frustration it can cause seeing a unit like that stroll around killing my models and feeling helpless. It sucks and is almost game ruiningly unfun. At the same time, escalating the firepower in the game is not the answer. It's a safe bet that in the not so distant future you'll play someone with a "normal" army build and if you were playing this LoW unit you would destroy large portions of their army in every turn you fired the gun, and given it's defensive abilities they would be powerless to stop the onslaught. So now you are the one playing the thing that is game ruiningly unfun. Do you really want to be the guy doing that to someone else?