Jump to content

Help me build a face smashing Iron Hands list!


Doug_L

Recommended Posts

With the new supplement, Iron Hands are looking like a winner. My normal list is mostly grey knight terminators and then I'll mix in a variety of space marine stuff to suit. I played a lot in 4th edition, got interested in warhammer again late last year, painted the terminator army over the last winter and have got in about a dozen games of 7th in the last couple months.

 

I always lose. Every. Single. Game. Often horrendously. My concept of winning has changed - if I still have models on the table by turn 4, I call it a win! I'm starting to think the gaming group (moved to a new city in February) are just a little more extreme than I'm used to. With the exception of two games, where the other player intentionally brought a dumbed down list (I lost those two but they were fun and down to the wire), I generally face lots of necrons and eldar with their usual tricks. Today's game was against three chaos knights. My army's current version has two multimeltas and no other anti-tank so it was a little lopsided...

 

I don't know these guys that well so it may be easier to "go with the flow," build a really smash-mouth army now and maybe later try to encourage more relaxed lists. With my current models, I can probably make a tough IH list but I have no idea where to start! Here's what I was thinking for a first draft:

 

Relusiam command squad

Chaplain with bike and gorgon's chain

Command squad on bikes, 5 stormshields, 2 power fists, 1 thunder hammer, 2 claws, apothecary

How important is the chapter master for the extra tanking wounds? Points were really tight. By the same logic, I would've liked more thunder hammers but they're 30pts a pop!

 

Armoured Company

Techmarine on bike

Predator with autocannon, lascannon sponsons

Predator with autocannon, lascannon sponsons

Whirlwind

No points for ironstone but I don't have that many vehicles here to make best use of it. These guys are more of a cheap detachment to sit on backfield objectives and plink off the odd wound. Is a thunderfire cannon a good fit for this type of army?

 

Skyhammer Detachment

5 assault marines with flamer, eviscerator

5 assault marines with flamer, eviscerator

8 devastators with 4 grav-cannons, pod

5 devastators with 2 multi-meltas, pod

 

Honored Ancients

Iron-clad with 2 heavy flamers, pod

I wouldn't normally bring a dreadnought as they generally die horribly to a stiff breeze but I have the model and it's painted great so i might as well use it. I hope that with the skyhammer coming in turn 1 as well as this guy, there will be enough targets to worry about that he may be ignored. Plus, 2 heavy flamers on the first turn can be great against a big necron blob that thought it was safe in cover.

 

Librarius Conclave

3 Librarians, all level 2, 1 on a bike, 2 on foot (with devastators)

 

Is this looking pretty tough? Would you guys want to play against it (I'm shooting for an attitude of no...)? Personally, I think it's really short on bodies but there's so many different detachments in there it's tough to make it all fit. It's about 1900pts now so to make 1850 there's hard choices to make. I think the ironclad is the first obvious cut and then I could replace the whirlwind with a vindicator... Alternatively, I could drop the conclave entirely and put in more vehicles. There's no anti-air, should I worry about it on the top tier of lists? Any other  thoughts? What would be your nightmare iron hands list to play against?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey there :)

 

Sorry about the run of losses, it can get pretty frustrating. I think everybody has been there at one point or another.

 

As for a face melting list:

 

It may take a few days/weeks for the really synergistic builds to pop up.

Are you working from existing models? Are you open to picking up the kits you'll need to flesh the list out?

Are you set on I.H.? If a better chapter tactic meshed with the list would you change? (Scars/RG/ect).

Does your group play mostly straight book missions? Maelstrom? Modified maelstrom (I.T.C.)?

What powers are u fishing for with the conclave?

 

The death star is pretty mobile and killy, but might suffer if the opponent can make you roll enough saves. The chaplain is nice as he buffs the unit in cc. It an interesting trade off with the chapter master (fist/hammer) who is a beat stick on his own.

 

The preds as back field campers feel funky to me. Can the formation split up onto different objectives?

 

The sky hammer is fun, and feels like how marines should play on the table. It feels a little unsupported though (except the dread). Will you deploy mid? Or go head long into the enemy?

 

If the enemy can weather your alpha, and out deploy/maneuver your star I think the list might have issues after the initial turns, especially if your current group runs harder lists. Even so, it looks like it would be fun to put on a table :)

 

It sounds like your still getting your rythum after returning to the game. Give it time, let the net lists emerge, and have some fun :)

 

The xenos' days are numbered >:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not particularly tied to any chapter. I chose IH as I assumed they would be the best choice.. but clearly I may not know what I'm doing.

 

The losing isn't really a big deal, it's pulling off all my models before turn 4 that bites! I've played a hundred plus games including multiple tournaments of 4th edition so I'm not a total rookie but I was certainly surprised how quickly my terminators have been dissolving! Warhammer has never been a balanced game and has always required that level of agreement between players - hence when I should quit whining and gear up to face wraithknights :biggrin: .

 

- To answer your questions, I have a big collection of models and can field just about anything. For the few things I don't own such as a TF cannon, I can certainly pick them up.

 

- I'm not actually sure what to use with the conclave. With the GK, I like to use Santic and Divination. Without the choice of Santic for vortex and cleansing flame, I would need something else to pick up the damage dealing slack. Against the knights yesterday, I tried the new Technomancy but wasn't impressed. I got off the primaris twice but failed to roll higher to take control of a gun. I also got off the haywire beam twice but both times bounced off void shields. I don't suspect it to be very powerful against super-heavies as they ignore all the damage table results. What do you think will mesh best?

 

- We play lots of maelstrom so there needs to be speed in the list for scoring. Most lists have smaller model counts so I don't suspect objective secured is required but certainly having the speed to grab objectives is a must.

 

- I see your point about the unsupported skyhammer. I think the culprit is just how tight points are squeezed in there. Maybe I'm stretching too much with too many detachments? I love librarians but I suspect they are the best source for freeing up points. Alternatively, is psychic support required to really make the deathstar shine?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright.. the skyhammer is.. not ok. Not really. The devastators are generally workable with grav cannons but you are paying for the 2 assault squads just to get a first round non snap shot with other weapons besides grav cannons. Grav cannons are salvo 3/5. You can do the same thing with just 2 devastators squads. You can even split the devastators, put half into dedicated rhinos and the other half into drop pods that you get from the command squads. The command squads you can put onto bikes and still pay for a drop pod so you don't waste your fast attack slots. Mixing in BA gives the ability to get fast predators/vindicators for more speed.

 

For the psykers look at telepathy for psychic shriek/shrouding/invisibility. If the psykers are on bikes instead of rhinos they can cast the invis/shroud. 

 

The secret with iron hands is to mix in a sanguineous priest from the BA to give your IH a 4+ feel no pain. You can also use a command squad with an apothecary to give the 4+ FNP as well. With both of those choices you can put people onto bikes which gives one of the best all round maneuver capability.

 

If you are coming in with drop pods, it really needs to be overwhelming. One of the advantages of the skyhammer is you can bring pods in first turn w/o them being in your count, but unless you bring 2 skyhammers in and a command squad pod on first turn it's kind of like leaving them out to dry because the devastators can't really move.

 

The dread is ok in a pod. you get a mover/shooter and if you can plant the pod onto an objective then your opponent has to make a choice.

 

Really figure out as many ways to gain Ignore Cover for the devastators, auspexes on the librarians or maybe use Ravenguard librarians so one of them can take Hunter's Eye for the squad ignores cover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I use the dedicated transport from a command squad for other units? I thought the section on transports is pretty clear in that the dedicated transport can only carry its unit during deployment. I don't have the BA codex but I'll take a look at what options it brings when I'm next at the store.

 

However, you did give me some things to think about. I may have been too restrictive by trying to use the new detachments and maybe the old codex already had the tools for abusiveness.

 

What about something like (1850):

 

Conclave (Imperial Fists - they will join grav-cannon devastator squads)

3x Level 2 librarians, all with auspexs, one with bones of osrak (the ones with bones will be by himself, the other two will work in the conclave)

 

Skyhammer (Imperial Fists)

2x 5 assault marines with melta bomb, flamer

1x 5 devastators with 4 MM, pod

1x 8 devastators with 4 Gravcannon, pod

 

Skyhammer (Imperial Fists)

2x 5 assault marines with melta bomb, flamer

1x 5 devastators with 4 Skyfire missiles, pod

1x 8 devastators with 4 Gravcannon, pod

 

Honored Ancients (Iron Hands)

Ironclad with 2 heavy flamers, pod

 

Recon Outriders (Iron Hands)

Landspeeder, heavy bolter, typhoon missiles

 

I think that's pretty tough and has lots of skyhammer grav to really mess with wraightknights yet still has enough flamer weapons not to be disrupted by an Ork army. All 5 pods and assault marines are dropping in the first turn. I could swap out the landspeeder for another librarian but I'm thinking the ability to capture backfield objectives may be more useful. I'm really not sold on the skyfire missiles (25 points per model!) but it's the easiest way to sneak in anti-air and with the devastators having tank hunter, they're still adequate at hurting vehicles.

 

To build this list I need 1 more pod, 4x more grav-cannons and 5x assault marines so it's not a huge burden to do. Let me know what you think and I'll try to get in a game or two later this month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Honored Ancients (Iron Hands)

Ironclad with 2 heavy flamers, pod

 

Recon Outriders (Iron Hands)

Landspeeder, heavy bolter, typhoon missiles

 

These are not formations, these are specific options within their respective detachments (Recon Outriders in the Anvil Strike Force and Honored Ancients in the Medusa Strike Force).  They are not available independently as they are not actual formations.  Formations have and require a rules page of their own.  So what you have listed here is actually an unbound list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true that there is a discrepancy between deployment and the term "after the game begins" in how deployment is counted. The BRB states that dedicated transports can only be deployed carrying the unit it was selected with plus IC, but then says after the game begins can transport any friendly unit. 

 

In the arriving by deep strike section of the BRB it says deep striking units are rolled for arrival like reserves "and then deploy them as follows"

 

The BRB continues to confuse the issue in the flyers section by saying "move one or more of their units out of reserves after deployment but before the game begins"

 

In the reserves section "when deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy some of their units, keeping them as reserves to arrive later, if it is impossible to deploy a unit for any reason it must be placed in reserves"

 

but the final cap is the statement "During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as reserves, you must specify if any units in reserves are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve"

 

So the BRB does mandate that during the deployment phase before the game begins that all units,not just deploying units, must be discussed and must comply with deployment requirements.

 

Mostly I am talking to myself because I have used that command squad drop pod to deep strike other units before in ITC and it's only now that I have time to look at it that says it's forbidden.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other thing I was going to say is that generally it's a good idea to build a list, play it a few times before you make changes because it's generally the player's ability that makes or breaks a list rather than the list itself. So it's a good idea to get comfortable with a list before throwing it away. This generally means that a losing list will lose faster and more heinously in the first couple three times playing it than later on, but it is also generally true that a losing list will still lose without regard to the player's ability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...