40k idea

[Guest]

Woke up to this idea about 40k, not quite awake yet. What if we resolve to-hit rolls against the BS of the target in a contested matter (like with weapon skill)? So a marine would need 4s to hit other marines, 3s to hit imperial guard, and so forth. You'd go against majority balistic skill when shooting a mixed BS unit. Blast weapons would just roll the arrow dice, and then you'd deviate by the number of inches your BS was exceeded by the target (or hit if you beat their BS), using the little arrow on the "hit!" roll. Barrage weapons out of LOS would always deviate the full BS of their target (making them pretty accurate against things with BS 0). 

 

No clue if this would help or hinder 40k, just a thought. Never considered doing it this way before, and it wouldn't require any changes to the statlines. 

[pretre]

So BS becomes a combined Shooting and Dodging skill? That's kind of weird.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I think giving space elves "nimble: may reroll failed Armor and Cover saves vs Ranged Attacks" would be a better move.

 

 

Most humans wouldn't need it.  A couple of the assassins, perhaps a Chapter Master or two.  Tau Ethereals possibly, as well.  Slaanesh daemons.   

[fingolfen]

Sounds sort of halfway between 40K and Flames of War - in FoW when you're shooting your required number to hit is based on the skill of the target unit (Conscripts are hit on 2+ before modifiers, Trained on 3+, Veterans on 4+), but in close combat hits are based on the skill of the attacking unit.

[fluger]

What if we resolve to-hit rolls against the BS of the target in a contested matter (like with weapon skill)? So a marine would need 4s to hit other marines, 3s to hit imperial guard, and so forth. You'd go against majority balistic skill when shooting a mixed BS unit.

Blast weapons would just roll the arrow dice, and then you'd deviate by the number of inches your BS was exceeded by the target (or hit if you beat their BS), using the little arrow on the "hit!" roll. Barrage weapons out of LOS would always deviate the full BS of their target (making them pretty accurate against things with BS 0). 

 

 

No clue if this would help or hinder 40k, just a thought. Never considered doing it this way before, and it wouldn't require any changes to the statlines. 

 

ines.

[Guest]

Wow. Forgot I posted this.

So BS becomes a combined Shooting and Dodging skill? That's kind of weird.

Just an idea. Logic is that BS represents both the ability to shoot, and the understanding of what actions would make it difficult to be shot. Not really dodging, but you don't really dodge bullets, you position yourself so your armor or the cover is more likely to protect you, or so the angle of the shot required is very challenging. A better shooter will consider more angles the shot could come from, and adjust (or that is the logic).

 

I was thinking you'd go with the same base table that Weapon skill uses, so 3+, 4+ and 5+ are the only to-hit rolls used. Snapfire remains 6+, and there is no 2+ (maybe 2+ for things without a BS score, like buildings). 

 

Main challenge would be the handful of units that don't have a BS score because GW didn't think units without ranged attacks needed one. 

[InfestedKerrigan]

Shouldn't snipers have a higher BS, then?  But shouldn't they be penalized as they have "Gone to ground" to be able to get the shots they are famous for?

[Guest]

Shouldn't snipers have a higher BS, then?  But shouldn't they be penalized as they have "Gone to ground" to be able to get the shots they are famous for?

A good point. I was thinking you'd use the actual BS stat, not the snapfire 1, when shooting at them. They'd still get a cover save, which would be improved by going to ground as normal.  The snapfire would apply when they shoot, as it does currently. 

 

Besides, the famous assassin in 40k is BS 8, being the vindicare assassin. So this would make him much harder to hit (with ranged attacks), which actually does make quite a bit of sense.

[Hobbitron]

I'm largely thinking along the same lines as Fluger...

 

While I understand the proposal, what does a change like this bring to the game?

 

It decreases the effectiveness of higher BS, and increases the effectiveness of low BS. It complicates the procedure. 7 minus BS is fairly clean. BS comparisons are less clean, as it requires a comparison and input from the opposing player (assuming you don't have their statlines memorized). It'd be the classic, "I'm WS 6, you're what?" "4" "Ok, 3s to hit". Makes it a bit harder on newer players...

 

I just see complications to one of the more clean aspects of the game.

[WestRider]

Also, Genestealers really don't need anything that lets even Orks hit them on 3+. Just sayin'.

[VonVilkee]

Also, Genestealers really don't need anything that lets even Orks hit them on 3+. Just sayin'.

Give them a bs of nine now must basic troopers hit them on 5s better than now!

 

Course with a change like this Marines will get cheaper...

[Guest]

I'm largely thinking along the same lines as Fluger...

 

While I understand the proposal, what does a change like this bring to the game?

 

It decreases the effectiveness of higher BS, and increases the effectiveness of low BS. It complicates the procedure. 7 minus BS is fairly clean. BS comparisons are less clean, as it requires a comparison and input from the opposing player (assuming you don't have their statlines memorized). It'd be the classic, "I'm WS 6, you're what?" "4" "Ok, 3s to hit". Makes it a bit harder on newer players...

 

I just see complications to one of the more clean aspects of the game.

Honestly, it was just an idea I had when I woke up. Not a dream, but definitely something conjured while half-awake. I'm mostly just glad you understand it.

 

Agree, no clue what it would bring to the game. Might be interesting to try with a buddy in a casual game. 

 

Though regarding new players, it would mean that the WS and BS worked basically the same, so it would probably be eaiser to remember. 

 

@westrider, I would give units like genestealers a BS score. 0 should be a building. I'd give them at least half their WS in effective BS for shooting at them if their default BS is - or zero. So genestealers would have BS3, meaning they were hit on 3s by marines and on 5s by orks (so no changes there). 

 

Might also give an effective BS 0 to immobile vehicles. Should be a lot eaiser to hit targets that can't move.