Terrain warscrolls and matched play

[Threejacks]

 Wondering what people think of this...

 

   I really like using as many of the terrain pieces as I can in my games of AoS and with Sylvaneth and their Woods scrolls along with the popular Balewind Vortex making regular appearances in matched play,im thinking perhaps that players of armies that dont really have any particular ties to terrain should be able to field one piece of their choice.This piece would replace  a piece that was either already set up if at an event or the player could replace a piece of terrain with thiers at the start of deployment.

  Specifics-

  

  - As above both Balewind Vortex and Sylvaneth Wildwoods would count toward the players terrain piece.

 

   -Terrain battalions would not be allowed to be counted as one piece,,thus cant be used in this case.Some are very cool,especially the Dreadhold ones but really should only be used in narrative non points play situations.

 

  -Kitbashed or custom pieces are allowed as long as thier footprint/highth is equal to the original GW piece in size(as close as possible).

 

 -Terrain placed as part of deployment gets placed first by either replaceing an existing terrain piece or placing counting as one of the rolled for pieces at game set up.

 

-Terrain that allows new units to be brought in(like the Arcane ruins) will require summoning points to be set aside in order to use this feature.

 

 Ive played with most all of the terrain warscrolls since the games release and,for the most part they dont have a big impact on the game.There are some combos like for instance the Dreadstone Blight and Balewind Vortex that can combine for some cheese shots (36" ranged Arcane Bolts doing d6 or even 6 morts) but these situations are very rare.40k allows players to bring fortifications,I think AoS Matched play should be no different.

 

 

 

 

[Tamwulf]

I would be kind of against this because Scenary Warscrolls have no point value (that I'm aware of), and certain terrain pieces would be way, way more advantageous to some armies with no equivalent.  For example, Sylvaneth and Sylvaneth Wood are terrifying to me, while Ironjawz at best would get cover from any terrain piece and nothing else. Now if there was a terrain piece that gave me Waagh! bonuses, or extra charge range or something, then sure! But unique scenery in this game is very Wizard centric, with some Priest bonuses, and then a couple that are usable by Hero's. Another example, the Garden of Mor for Death models. That thing screams broken as Hell for a Death Hero Wizard- which is every Vampire. Or just about any terrain piece that I can garrison with a bunch of shooting models. As there is no limit to the amount of models that can garrison a building (only limits warscrolls), an Ork player could throw his 40+ Archer Boys or whatever they are called inside the building, and happily shoot at anything within range all game long, and there would be nothing you could do about it because only two models in the game right now can destroy scenery.

 

What rule in matched play allows players to bring their own scenery warscroll? 

 

Some armies get fantastic bonuses for certain types of warscroll scenery that they would always take, while others get no real benefit at all.

[Steel Angel]

Lol not going like it . but Sylvaneth can bring woods and make them even in match play.

[Threejacks]

I would be kind of against this because Scenary Warscrolls have no point value (that I'm aware of), and certain terrain pieces would be way, way more advantageous to some armies with no equivalent.  For example, Sylvaneth and Sylvaneth Wood are terrifying to me, while Ironjawz at best would get cover from any terrain piece and nothing else. Now if there was a terrain piece that gave me Waagh! bonuses, or extra charge range or something, then sure! But unique scenery in this game is very Wizard centric, with some Priest bonuses, and then a couple that are usable by Hero's. Another example, the Garden of Mor for Death models. That thing screams broken as Hell for a Death Hero Wizard- which is every Vampire. Or just about any terrain piece that I can garrison with a bunch of shooting models. As there is no limit to the amount of models that can garrison a building (only limits warscrolls), an Ork player could throw his 40+ Archer Boys or whatever they are called inside the building, and happily shoot at anything within range all game long, and there would be nothing you could do about it because only two models in the game right now can destroy scenery.

 

What rule in matched play allows players to bring their own scenery warscroll? 

 

Some armies get fantastic bonuses for certain types of warscroll scenery that they would always take, while others get no real benefit at all.

 

  What rule in matched play states that I cant bring and place scenery warscrolls?

 

  This is why im bringing this up,,currently the Balewind Vortex is very popular and of course as Steel mentioned,Sylvaneth has unlimited use of their woods. So what do we do?,,tell Sylvaneth players they cant use their woods in matched play?..no more Balewind Vortex(even though it just got re-released this week)?.Or how about we let players show up with their 2k points of Bloodbound along with an entire Dreadhold to fill 3/4 of the game board?..none  of the above works.

[Tamwulf]

I'm just saying some armies get huge benefits from scenery, and some armies get nothing out of it. In matched play, how do you price the value of scenery warscrolls? How many points is a Balewind Vortex? How many points are the Sylvaneth Woods? What about a Realm Gate? The Garden of Mor?

 

Down in Salem last month during Annihilation 5, each of the boards had scenery pieces with warscrolls for them. I would have no problem going to a tournament where a tournament organizer has set up the terrain and has warscrolls for that terrain. That way, picking sides and deployment will matter a lot more. I would hope the TO would also do his/her best to make sure everyone got a shot at different tables, and that certain armies wouldn't always get the best terrain for themselves. 

 

How are these other tournaments handling scenery warscrolls? Are they just allowing people to bring whatever they want? Because again, some armies get way, way more benefits from specific warscroll scenery than others.

 

Threejacks, your proposal from my perspective just doesn't work. There are no points value for the terrain, and the value for that terrain varies dramatically from army to army. Specific example: My Ironjawz would get no benefit from taking a Balewind Vortex or Sylventh woods. My Shaman is probably one of the worst Wizards in the game, and every list I've seen so far, and the advice I've been given says "don't take him". The Sylventh woods mean nothing to me but cover. But to someone playing a magic heavy army, they would want a Balewind Vortex for their wizard to give him double range on his spells and +1 for casting and dispelling. Sylvanth want all those woods for all the benefits it gives their army. Allowing those armies to bring whatever scenery warscroll they want gives them a huge advantage over those armies that get no benefit from the same piece of scenery. There must be some kind of regulation or intrinsic value system for scenery warscrolls before allowing a player to bring whatever they want.

[Threejacks]

 After seeing your Ironjawz in action first hand,I can see the challenges that army faces.It got me thinking about how I want to build mine up when I start work on them.

 

 You mentioned that there isint any terrain piece that would benifit your build,,however have you considered a Realmgate?.The wording on their warscroll allows a unit to port through them and come out within 6" of any board edge..a big thing to note here is there isint any restriction listed at all about how close to an enemy unit they can end up.This means you can end up in combat and base to base with enemys after porting.This may seem like they missed something here but actually its very fluffy as there are instances in the book series were this very thing happened.

 

  For your army this would greatly enhance your already great speed but add much needed back door capability to either buff heros or artillery /shooters camping behind your opponents line.Certainly you would risk loosing models but even if only 3 of 5 Brutes make it through and end up in the face of an artillery crew or squishy caster it can be devistating to the enemy.

[Steel Angel]

Orks and the phrase "back door capabilitie" should not be uttered in same post.

[Threejacks]

 Something to note,the new Balewind Vortex has an updated warscroll and now is showing a 7+ to cast(was 5+) and specifies now that the wizard on top cannot be charged.

[Krieger]

I don't see an issue with the Balewind Vortex being allowed as is in matched play. The cost is built into the fact that it's a spell that you may or may not pull off.

 

 

Especially now that they have updated the scroll to not allow monsters.

[Threejacks]

  Update for those that dont already know,its official and posted on the FB page and in the App I think.

 

 The Balewind Vortex now costs 100 pts

 

 Sylvaneth Wildwoods are 40 pts each unless the army is Sylvaneth allegiance in which case they are free.

 

 Im hoping that they release points for all other terrain pieces as well as this will set this issue to rest.