AscentStudios

You guys must have never seen my impression of Typical 40k Player, CA 1996 - "Land Raiders are HOW much?!? *digs out wallet, starts dropping bills on counter* Gimme 3. Goddamn GW, gouging prices...grumble grumble..."

$5 mat = 1 yard black felt + 3 different color of fabric paint pens. Not as purdy as some of these other options but a damn sight cheaper, and easily washed or replaced if you spill beer on it.

Folks at the bitz swap told me you were looking for these guys - I have the Ar-Ulric model, complete and untouched for sale!

Am I reading this right - did you have 18 models in an 1800 pt list? 8|

I'm sure the Knights themselves will be scoring if they're taken as a Primary Detachment. There is probably another rules blurb explaining exactly how it works that we haven't seen yet, but the bit we have seen seems fairly self-explanatory.

Ask and ye shall receive:

 

I dig the Bomber...but I think it's way better to have at least a brace of them. I'm running a Bomber list which is Capt Jonus (for the reroll on secondary wweapons) + Seismic Charges + Squad Leader, 2 x Scimitar bombers with Assault and Cluster Missiles, and 2 Academy TIEs. It can put a hurtin' on swarms and big ships, and is packing enough ordinance to be a serious threat to multiple ships.

Did someone say BITZ SWAP?!?!

 

I've been going through the Basement of Miniature Doom and have pulled a bunch of stuff I'd be happy to trade or sell. Fair warning, I'm looking for specific things at this point (volume is now an active detriment for me :)), most of it 80s era - list is below.

 

Here's what I can bring:

 

Rogue Trader:

Eldar (multipart metal/plastic, characters)

Marines (metal)

Orks (metal)

Adventurers (metal)

SQUATS!!!! (metal)

 

Modern 40k:

Tygerius/Lord Maccrage

Servitors

Uriah Jacobus

Assassins (Vindicare, Callidus)

Tyranids (Stealers, Hormagaunts, Zoanthropes, 2nd ed Lictor, 2nd ed Carnifex, 2nd ed Tyrant)

Marine Scouts (metal)

Wolf Scouts (metal)

Imperial Guard (metal, commissar and valhallans)

Dark Eldar wyches (metal)

New Dark Eldar (Talos, Cronos, Wracks, Haemonculus)

2 x Vindicators

Godhammer Land Raider

Khorne Berserkers

 

 

80s Fantasy:

Ogres

Orc archer regiment (metal)

Skeletons (metal, 1985-7 style; first plastic cavalry)

Chaos Warriors and Sorcerers

Dwarves (metal)

Gobbos

Squigs + Squig Hoppers

Metal minotaur

 

Other GW:

Blood Bowl - 2nd ed humans and skaven

Necromunda - bounty hunter and Van Saar

Gorkamorka - Digga Yoof and Rokkit Buggy Gunner

Citadel AD&D - Fighter, Wizard, Evil Fighter

Citadel Villagers

 

Now, here's the master trading list!:

 

Warhammer 40k

 

Space Marines – Rogue Trader era

• RT Artificer Armor 1 and 3 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2007smarmourvariants-00.htm

• 2 RT Jump Packs (fan style)

• RT Marines

o Corvus Armor 1 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2007smarmourvariants-00.htm

o Bionic Eye and Bolt Pistol - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2009smmarines-00.htm

o Bolter 4 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2010smmarines-00.htm

o Bolter 5 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2010smmarines-00.htm

o Bolter 9 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2011smmarines-00.htm

o Gunner 3 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2012smmarineheavies-00.htm

o Gunner 4 with Power Glove - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2012smmarineheavies-00.htm

o Gunner 6 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2012smmarineheavies-00.htm

• Plastic RT marine backpacks (pref the grey ones that go with metals)

• RT Lord Macragge/Space Marine Commander on Throne – http://www.solegends.com/citcat19911/c2006smcommanders-00.htm

 

Eldar

• Harlequin Jetbike(s) or canopy(s) – as many as I can get, highest priority: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:RT-1989-Harlie-Jetbike.jpg

• Wraithknight(s) – wraithcannons loadout only if built

• Wraithlord(s) – plastic only, double brightlance loadout if built

• 12 Jetbikes

• Harlequins:

o Old high avatar: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:RT-1989-Harlie-GreatHarlequin.jpg

o Old mask, sword and shuriken pistol: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:RT-1989-HarlieBP-13.jpg

o Old mask, axe and shuriken pistol: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:RT-1989-Harlie-RTB06-17.jpg

o Old “Bug eye” with axe and shuriken pistol: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:RT-1989-HarlieBP-12.jpg

 

Dark Eldar – New style only

• 6 Reaver Jetbikes (with 2 heat lances)

• 2 Venoms – plus additional splinter cannon if built

• 10 Wyches

 

Imperial Guard

• 2-7 2nd edition stormtroopers (the guys with the berets)

• Beret heads from the Cadian/Catachan command sets or Maxmini

• Urkasar Creed – metal please

• RT style imperial guard – one piece metal greatly preferred

• RT Imperial Guard arms/lasguns

• Mordian lascannon team x 2

• 2 Mordians with lasgun

• 2 Mordians with plasma gun

• Punisher cannons for a Vulture

• Chimeras

 

Chaos Marines/Daemons:

• 6 pairs of Plague Drone Wings

• FW Chaos Renegade Weapon Arms x 2

• FW Blight Drones

• FW Nurgle Daemon Prince & Herald

• FW Nurgle Plague Toads + Plague Riders x 3

 

Tyranids

• Genstealer Cult Hybrids (metal)

o Genestealer Magus with Scanner: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Magus_with_scanner.jpg

o Genestealer Magus with Microphone: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Magus_with_laspistol.jpg

o General metal hybrids - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Genestealers_(First_Edition)_-_Collectors_Guide#Hybrid_Genestealers

• Genestealer Cult plastic arms

 

Fortifications

• Imperial Bastion

• Firestorm Redoubt

• Icarus Lascannon bits

 

Horus Heresy:

• Mark II/III marine armor bits (legs, helmets, backpacks) – don’t need full marines

• Typhon Siege Tank

• Sicaran tank

 

Necromunda

• Confrontation gang models (any faction, but especially leaders and one-piece metals) - http://www.sodemons.com/rhrare/confrontation/index.htm

• Delaque Leader with Bolter and Power Axe - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Delague_Leader_with_boltgun_%26_power_axe.jpg

• Cawdor Gangers with Shotguns - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Cawdor_with_shotgun_2.jpg

• Cawdor Heavy with Heavy Bolter – http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Cawdor_heavy_-_heavy_bolter.jpg

• Pit slaves + weapon arms - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Necromunda_1995_-_1997_-_Collectors_Guide#1997_Pit_Slaves

 

Warhammer Fantasy

 

Kislev

• Kossar standard bearer

 

Brettonian

• 80’s Men-at-arms or Peasants

 

Chaos:

• Plastic Nurgle Chaos Lord - http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1340007a

• 80’s Chaos Thugs:

o Hooked axe/punch dagger - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Chaos_Thugs_Cat_88_03_09.jpg

o Two handed sword with winged helmet - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Chaos_Thugs_Cat_88_03_12.jpg

o Barbed spear, crested helmet - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Chaos_Thugs_Cat_88_04_10.jpg

• 80’s Chaos Warriors:

o Bat-winged helmet, axe - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Chaos_Warriors_Cat_88_02_16.jpg

o Sword, angry shield (Bezzlebound) - http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Chaos_Warriors_C35_3RD_Comp_13.jpg

o Sword and Bone Armor 1 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20268rcchaoswarr-00.htm

o Scythe (throwing the goat) - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20270rcchaoswarr-00.htm

o Jezzail and Sword - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20270rcchaoswarr-00.htm

o Sword and Bone Armor 2 - http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20270rcchaoswarr-00.htm

 

Ogres

• 80’s Ogres:

o Pit Fighter: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20292ogres-00.htm

o Bandit Ogre: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20292ogres-00.htm

o Bounty Hunter: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20292ogres-00.htm

o Mercenary: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20292ogres-00.htm

o Warlord: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20292ogres-00.htm

o Berserker: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20293ogres-00.htm

o Shaman: http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20293ogres-00.htm

 

Undead

• Ghouls (metal – Paul Muller “skinny” sculpts preferred: http://www.solegends.com/citcat2000/c2000p337-02.htm)

 

Mordheim

• Ghouls (metal only)

• Zombies (metal only – the ones that are zombie versions of the different types of warbands)

 

Citadel AD&D miniatures

I am always looking for any models from the 1985 series of models Citadel made for AD&D. You can find a catalog of them here: http://www.solegends.com/rsadd/index.htm

 

Talisman

I’m also always keeping an eye out for stray Talisman minis that make it into peoples’ collections. A collection of the figs can be found here: http://www.solegends.com/cittal/index.htm

 

Other Miniatures Companies

 

Fantasy Flight

I’m an X-Wing player so am interested in trading for ships and cards (I also have named pilots and cards I’m willing to trade as well):

 

• HWK-290

• TIE Bomber x 2

• B-Wing x 2

• Slave I/Firespray

• Lambda Shuttle

 

Otherworld Miniatures

Pretty much any minis, particularly classic D&D monsters and undead.

 

Lead Adventure

Most interested in their “The Last Project” post-apocalyptic packs: http://www.lead-adventure.com/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=ac6032fd53e589156e12e5b003dc298c

 

Ultraforge

• Lord of Pestilence kit - http://www.ultraforgeminiatures.com/?page_id=27

• Plaguedemon kit - http://www.ultraforgeminiatures.com/?page_id=34

 

Heresy Miniatures

• Ghoul range: http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_11_27

• “Mr. Sinister” Ganger: http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_15&products_id=283

• “Wesley” Sniper Ganger: http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_15&products_id=138

• “Slick” ganger: http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_15&products_id=135

• “Slow Mo II” Shotgun Variant Ganger: http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=141:78ae00150b4b48d811363d79e92f2fc7

 

Future Wars/Future Warriors

I’m interested in the post-apocalyptic figures from this old range of figs by Mark Copplestone. Future Wars are here: http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/range.php?range=FW; Future Warriors are here: http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=future-warrior-28-mm

 

Dwarven Forge/Hirst Arts

I use Dwarven Forge Dungeon Tiles, so 1-inch tiles, specialized pieces (like room sets, stairways, narrow halls, floors, etc.) and furnishings are of interest to me.

 

Chainmail/Wizards of the Coast

Looking for Naresh faction (the gnolls), Ahmut’s Legion (undead) + classic D&D monsters:

• Demonic Gnoll Adept - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88703.jpg

• Gnoll Archer - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88080.jpg

• Gnoll Ranger - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88350.jpg

• Gnoll Trooper - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88705.jpg

• Gnoll Warrior - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88430.jpg

• Gnoll Cleric - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88910.jpg

• Gnoll Monk - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88434.jpg

• Otyugh - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88400.jpg

• Owlbear - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88060.jpg

• Displacer Beast - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-96278.jpg

• Kuo-Toa Trooper - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88433c.jpg

• Hell Hound - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88840.jpg

• Ghoul - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88380a.jpg

• Ghoul B - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88380b.jpg

• Slaughterpit Gnoll Zombie - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88110.jpg

• Battered Skeletal Troll - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88353.jpg

• Skeletal Orc - http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Image:Woc-cm-88358.jpg

The z95 looks like I'm getting at least 2

My guess is that ship's going to be the first Wave 4 to sell out - because it's the only cheap Rebel ship out there (19 pts max) so folks will want a bunch. Fooling around yesterday, I make a list that had 5 x Bandit Squad (3 with Ion Pulse Missile) + Kyle Katarn HWK with Ion Turret, Recon Specialist and Swarm Tactics that looked really nasty - there's so much Ion that they an easily stun 1-2 key ships/turn to control threats while swarming vulnerable targets with weenies to finish them off.

Looking for a second edition lictor and carnifex(s), any condition as long as all the parts are there.

 

I have Nids and marine stuff for trade, or money.

I've got both, in need of stripping (yowza!). Tradewise, I'm on the lookout for RT Marines and Nid stuff, or cash. Or a heap of random type things. PM me :)

Can we talk about the *new* spaceships now?

I have only played one game of this, and it took me half a turn to realize that my Ion cannon turret basically just ruined the other guys day. I am sure the advent of more ship types has helped the situation, but the game was just far too easy once you got your stun on.

Yeah, I definitely think in the smaller games/for unprepared opponents, Ion is just brutal. I've only used Ion Cannons once on Slave I and it totally caught my opponent off guard. It's a great setup for a combo if you can get an attack run lined up - disable with Ion, then send in your lower PS pilots to shoot down the Ionized ship in the next round. It's even worse when the side with Ion also has a torpedo or missile-armed ship, or someone like Backstabber with abilities to increase damage and the speed/maneuverability to get there fast. Good thing Imperial ships don't have access to cannons...

 

...but I just reread the Wave 4 page, and saw that TIE Defenders can mount cannon upgrades - combine that with a ship and what I am betting is a white K-Turn (they brag the TIE-D has "a maneuver you've never seen on another dial before") you can use that bad boy to back a TIE Swarm, setting up a big ship for a kill by your weenies. Don't know if I'm more stoked about that, or the fact the TIE Phantom can take Advanced Systems and Crew upgrades...

I've been running the following list at 1850 and having a good time with it.

 

[165] Chaos Lord + Mark of Nurgle + Terminator Armor + Chainfist + Blight Grenades + Burning Brand of Skalathrax

[125] Warpsmith + Mark of Nurgle

 

[210] Decimator Daemon Engine + Storm Laser

[120] Helbrute + Heavy Flamer

[120] Helbrute + Heavy Flamer

 

[227] 10 Marines + VotLW + Plasma Gun + Autocannon + Rhino with Dirge Caster, Havoc Launcher

[227] 10 Marines + VotLW + Plasma Gun + Autocannon + Rhino with Dirge Caster, Havoc Launcher

 

[170] Helldrake + Baleflamer

[170] Helldrake + Baleflamer

 

[158] 2 Obliterators + Mark of Nurgle + Vets of the Long War

[158] 2 Obliterators + Mark of Nurgle + Vets of the Long War

 

Basically, both HQs attach to an Oblit squad, the Lord + Oblits deep-strike while the Warpsmith shatters defenses on the best ruin in the enemy deployment zone or whereever the objective's been dropped. The Hellbrutes + Decimators work as a squad and come up the middle as the hammer, backed up by the Helldrakes and marines in Rhinos which go after transports and infantry. It ain't subtle but it's pretty fun!

actually, no you cannot.  You cannot put a turret on the b wing.  you can put an ion cannon, but the turret is what makes the ywing ion great.    Ywings are my nemisis.

You're right! I started with Wave 2, but have never played against a Y-Wing - though the HWK-90 with Ion Turret makes for one annoying support craft.

Why does everyone hate on Ys? I love Ion Cannons on a turret.

Mainly because I can put them on the far superior B-Wing :)

I see your a game manufacturing expert!

Actually, he kinda is. Reference: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1821440755/mega-mantm-the-board-game

 

Did you consider that this game is actually just under three decks of cards and some rules? There is no plastic pieces or game board that I can see. Which would significantly raise the cost. The fact is, you can create good quality custom cards for a pretty low cost. Since there is not much else to the game, it makes it really affordable. The MSRP is set at $25 which is about what most "all card" games go for (munchkin, etc) and the kickstarter price is a good deal forgoing retail mark up to raise the base capital. This is exactly how it should be done.

For your consideration - much of the prices you see on products like those you cite rely heavily on 2 things, a) volume and b) printing overseas. Not every game company can rely on either of those things. For instance, I have purchased all-card games with smaller circulations that top out at around $40 but have nice components, and others that are $25 but by necessity have had to make some sacrifices in component quality in order to keep the price low (or, god forbid, work with a Chinese printer sight unseen/without making day-of press checks).

 

Many, many, many companies that use Kickstarter to produce a game do not do so to line their pockets - they do so in order to ensure they can actually raise the necessary capital, build a larger head of promotional steam than they could if they were bootstrapping, and/or actually pay themselves something for the time and toil they spend on making that game. Speaking as the owner of a company that has gone the traditional route for 8 years, I can't overemphasize how valuable those things are in a business with this much risk and customer expectations this high. And if they're doing really well, they can even use some of that money to lower the final MSRP. But I don't think it's a company's obligation to use Kickstarter to make a product cheaper.

 

Personally, I think that trying to make Kickstarter a race to the bottom in terms of costs is a profoundly bad idea for the entire chain - if it is all about slamming costs down, companies selling in retail are hurt because of artificial expectations about what a game *actually costs* to bring to market through distribution; Kickstarter creators are hurt because there's an additional pressure to cut into their margins just like they would be if going through distro in order to make a lower price; retailers are hurt because people stop bothering buying in stores; and customers are hurt because the central hub of the gaming communities - the stores, clubs, and other communities where gamers meet - are sidelined.

 

In the end, folks should be Kickstarting something in the hopes of making that thing become a reality, not to get as cheap a product as possible. Sure, it's a nice perk of investing, but that's not the point. The creators of those projects need to ask for the money they think need to bring stuff out, companies in distribution should not be actively discouraged from selling through stores, and retailers still need to have a seat at the table because they *actually provide tables* that all of us benefit from. Circle of life :)

I think it's too soon to declare the game is done. I'm going to give FFG the benefit of the doubt, cause I think by in large they've done a great job so far.

 

To your concerns: The Headhunter is a *Rebel* ship, finally giving that side something less than 16 points to fill out its lists. TIEs will be affected not at all (and TIE Swarms will still be stronger, thanks to the +1 AGL, Evade, Barrel Roll and many support ships they have to back them up).

 

As for power creep, I think the big balancing factor will be the increased point costs we're starting to see. The E-Wing example they show on the page is a 32 point ship, nekkid. The Defender's lowest PS ship is 30 points. So I think part of what we'll see is points-creep, as the game moves to accommodate more-than-100-point games (and the bigger ships they allow). I for one am looking forward to bigger games, as I would like to fly more than 4 ships when playing Rebels, or to build TIE wings with something more than Academy Pilots :)

 

The counterpoint to concerns about power creep IMO is the fact most of these new ships are using existing upgrades, rather than adding new ones. for example, I'm hoping the addition of new Astromechs and Turret upgrades in this wave will breathe some new life into the Y-Wing, which is currently a bit of a turd now that the B-Wing is out there. This gives FFG the chance to course-correct on some of the older ships by generating new stuff that work well with them. Sure you have to buy new stuff but let's face it...you were going to anyway ;)

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4645

 

Holy. Crap.

 

I've been worried about the future of X-Wing, as with the release of big ships and repaints in the last few waves, it was starting to look like they'd run out of ships already. This wave looks to really mix things up for both factions, including:

 

* a 12 pt Rebel Ship in the Rookie Headhunter

* The game's first 4 ATK ship in the TIE Phantom...plus cloaking!

* The toughest, nastiest TIE (3's across the board) in the TIE Defender

* The expensive love child of an A-Wing and X-Wing (with Astromechs and Advanced Systems) in the E-Wing

 

After a little bit of disappointment in the results of some of my favorite ships back in Wave 2 (the TIE Interceptor and A-Wing), it looks like they're going to make up for it in spades in Wave 4. I'm excited to see some new stuff that will mean seeing new forces beyond TIE swarms and Gunboatpalooza that seems to pop up in the game currently.

 

Here's looking forward to this summer!

PMed!

 

PS - Bryan doesn't need any more Daemons, but I do!

Don't get me wrong: IB is still bad. Even barring the stupidity of the 1-3 results in most cases, not controlling what your troops do is bad. Some apologists focus on the "free" USR but that's just a nice spit-shine on the turd of "your troops are ignoring you." But Taak is right that it doesn't affect as many units as you think it does - which is another reason IB is even more bad (makes you fret about something you don't have to fret about, making it even harder to judge IB's effects on your army - just a waste of time and neurons, and frustrating for no actual result).

 

If I had to write this book and to keep IB, I would have simply made more shades of IB and spread them logically (I mean, instinct is always logical, because it's tied to survival and playing to a critter's strengths...it's just not always beneficial or reliable). IB in this case would only ever do one thing...what the critter defaults to when it's not being lead around by Synapse. Oh, and nothing would ever cannibalize itself, because by that logic the cannibalistic genotype doesn't deserve to survive and evolve...and your troops randomly killing themselves is completely unfun.

 

Anyway, I do appreciate someone's at least trying to look at the reality, and figure out how to work within it. His note about order of operations in the beginning of the Movement phase was, for me, very enlightening.

If you've got the 2nd Edition Sisters of Battle or Space Wolves codices, I would love to get my hands on 'em (they're the last two I don't have in my collection). Don't have any of your dwarves you're looking for, but I do have a few old 80s dwarves I can swap to do you a turn...

OK. This is the first, actually useful, insightful, balanced article I've read on Instinctive Behavior (WARNING: length rivals War & Peace):

 

http://www.3plusplus.net/2014/01/understanding-instinctive-behaviour-synergistic-relationships-within-the-tyranid-army/

That, right there, is pure conversion magic.

According to some online sources, part of the reason certain elements were omitted were competitiors poaching on their stuff and selling models.  Apparently there was a sizable lawsuit attached to this.  There's several places where they site (unnamed sources of course) as saying that play testing didn't start early enough and so playtesting results weren't conclusive enough by the time upper management forced them to "finish playing with their toys and sell something already".  I dont know the sources and cant verify any of it but its plausible.  

 

I thought it funny because I remember all the online chatter about 5 years ago where people were really upset at the way GW was always releasing things later than scheduled.  Well now they are apparently on a breakneck strict schedule I'd say.  Maybe they should decide on an author next time a lot sooner?  That could give him more time to think about it before the project ACTUALLY starts.  

 

Who was the project manager for the book.  Does it say?

I mean this in the most civil possible way - but how is any of this relevant? While I'm annoyed at the loss of Spores, that's not the underlying problem with the book that the bug players here in this forum are actually discussing. Nor is who's to blame. The problem is the book has serious problems in terms of being on par with the rest of this edition, and so obviously so. We as consumers don't have to look any further than that.

Well said. I feel bad about being so damn bitchy about this thing, but I think as a game designer, seeing something that's just so...lazy really pushes my IRRITATE! button. Mostly I'm baffled as to why they felt the need to make an almost arbitrary set of changes to a bunch of OK units, but leave so many other direly crappy units the same and excessively nerf some of the remaining good stuff.

 

While most discussion has focused on the negative, it's nice to see Carnies and T-fexes get a vital price drop, to see some shifting of units out of Elites to other slots (Deathleaper I'm looking at you), and the addition of the Exocrine which isn't that bad. I even respect the points changes to the Terv, and the removal of the Doom (pours 40 on the curb). But I put very little stock in an army being about points - or the fallacy of "earning your points back" - in general. It's how you use it that matters; an "overpriced" 'dex like Nids 5E did just fine with a little thought. And what we got was more complexity for no payoff...also known as "pointless work."

 

The dex just screams Lost Opportunity to me - not because they needed to utterly remake the bugs, but because they could have just made a popular army legitimately balanced and fun in 6E, and obviously chose not to.

When I look at the Instinctive Behavior (IB) chart I see pretty much all positives except Feed and even Feed has good results.  The chart doesn't even come up until you fail morale which you may never do.  Live in fear of what may rarely happen?  Not this guy!  I'll Deep Strike 4 inches from you because its WHY THAT UNIT IS HERE!

Uh, losing control of your units is BAD. Period. Basing that on a Ld check you are more likely than not to fail (avg leadership amongst non Synapse bugs = Ld 6.5, btw) does not make this statistically comforting. I could also say "Why play a shooting Tau army? I mean, you might never hit." As for accepting risk or casualties in a game - let's just say you know nothing of my armies or my play style, so we can just keep that out of the conversation.

 

I am on a lot of forums.  And on those forums I hear VERY little talk about how to USE this codex.  All I hear is how bad it LOOKS (with, by the way, maybe three games to back it up if that before they spouted, if that).  I hear that ONE Instinctive Behavior table CAN bone you.  CAN.  But as for useful tactica?  Forget about it.

Well, I've tried to start a discussion, as have others. Perhaps we can start here and perhaps you can contribute rather than expecting us to cram in some acceptable number of games to prove to you that we are somehow capable of providing criticism?

 

I think if you keep tinkering with it, you're going to find that what I said earlier is true:  Lists will change and results will improve.  I don't think they will be "top tier", but then, most agree an arms race isn't a good idea anyways.  I think this codex falls in the "Good Generals are going to mop up like they always do, but look awesome doing it" category of middle tier.

So...do you want to have a discussion, based on what I know, both from *actually* playing a game, and *actually* owning and playing this army for the better part of 3 years? Cause I'm willing to have that discussion. But repeating to me that armies will change, as if I am a child, is not necessary.