AbusePuppy

The unfortunate answer is that there really aren't any rules for such a weapon, although it's not terribly hard to derive some. The rules for shooting generally talk about "in range" rather than "inside maximum range," so we can draw from that the presumption that the blast marker would have to be placed over a model within the weapon's range band (although it could scatter inside the minimum range or outside the maximum.) Since it has other weapons on the chassis that don't have minimum ranges, we generally don't have to worry about the issue of whether or not you could pull casualties from inside the minimum range- simply insure there are other wounds in the wound pool as you resolve the main cannon and it won't matter at all thanks to the FAQ.

I hate how tyranids finally get a new codex and all the tyranids players can think of is how not over powering the codex is. Say thank you to GW for your update and count your blessings that GW didn't discontinue bug product support.

-Pax

Oh come on now, you wouldn't thank me for punching you in the gut because I could've stabbed you with a knife. Tyranid players are fully within their rights to have hoped for an interesting and well-written codex with enjoyable options; the fact that GW did not deliver that is a legitimate complaint.

Bugs don't want Skyshields for most of their units because being on a Skyshield means you're sitting static. One of the biggest advantages Tyranids have, at least in theory, is that virtually everything in their book has superior combat stats and can move and shoot to full effect, so you are always putting the opponent on a clock for when your MCs and horde units arrive at their lines. If you are sitting out at 36", the other shooting armies are just gonna laugh and let you roll 4+s as they tear your army to pieces- perhaps a bit more slowly than they otherwise might, but since your firepower is negligible, that hardly even matters.

Sounds like your comparing rough stones to cut gems. You compare top tier lists to a brand new codex where no one has had it long enough to polish their army to even a shiny stone. Give it time.

-Pax

That's a pretty poor analogy. People knew from day one that Riptides, Missilesides, Wave Serpents, and Jetbikes would be powerful- of course, no one knew exactly how the lists would come together, but the potential was obviously there. I don't feel that's true for the Tyranid codex; there's a few interesting choices, but nothing that really jumps out as "Wow, that has potential" the way that many of the other books have.

If anything, I'm comparing cut gems to dirt. You can grind and polish that dirt all you want, but it ain't never gonna be a diamond.

Tyranids don't really get many good long-range weapons. Stranglethorn Cannons are okay, but not so good you want to spend 900pts on five of them. Heavy Venom Cannons are pretty [big bad swear word]ty. Everything else is 18" or less.

Having played both as and against the new 'Nids, I would have to disagree, pax. They don't really have solutions to most of the top lists in 40K right now, most especially Eldar, SM, and Daemons.

The problem is that these could just as easily be labeled "blast weapon defense 101," and many of them don't even really apply to the units that are most worried about Str D weapons. Heavy tanks and monstrous creatures are too big to hide behind most terrain pieces- especially against a target as tall and as mobile as a titan- and can't usefully climb into ruins, don't have multiple models in a squad, etc.

If a Tau Player really wants to waste his Markerlights Snap-firing at my FMC/FGC, I'm fine with that. Those are a valuable commodity in a Tau Army, and I'm getting value from wasting those shots. Lasguns in a Guard Army, on the other hand, are common as dirt.

If grounding your Harridan lets them shoot it with the Str D blasts, they weren't wasted. That thing is rather a lot of points in your army. Not to mention the fact that the Markerlights are going to be the guns of last resort for the Tau player in that case- they have Kroot, Fire Warriors, tons of twin-linked guns, etc, etc, to throw at it first.

Not sure about tyranid codex, but should have some buffs you can get it.

The only buffs you can really give it from the new 'Nid book are FNP (from Catalyst, which it already has), Preferred Enemy (from the Swarmlord, which is gonna be another 400pts invested), or Shrouded (for the one turn or so that you may be able to keep a Venomthrope in range.)

Also keep in mind with its Vector Strike that you will have to pass over an enemy unit to use it and find a legal landing spot- and, unlike flyers, FGCs move 12"-24", which is considerably shorter. Its enormous base does not help this any, either, since most people will easily be able to close gaps in their line to prevent a foot-long plastic oval from being able to be placed down in the middle of their forces.

so I broke out the 4th ed tyranid codex last night....Tyrants used to be 75 pts, Warriors 14 pts, Carnifexes 85 pts......

Keep in mind that all of those units had significantly lower stats at that point- for example, Tyrants were WS5(?) and A3 rather than WS8 A4. Carnifexes were BS2 I1 A2. Warriors were WS4 BS2 W2 A2.

I actually feel like the Carnifex and Tyrant prices are about right as they stand, although there's some minor problems with both units. Warriors are horrifically overcosted, but that has been the case for a long time now- the 4th Edition Warriors were actually even worse than they are now, because they were HQ/EL choices rather than troops, which meant that they were taking up slots where you would otherwise be fielding Dakkafexes and Dakka Tyrants.

Huh? I have never, ever seen one instance where GW has referred players to a FAQ for a previous book. When GW once cared about such things, they would even remove the old FAQ from the web site as soon as the new book was released. There is no precedence at all of using an old FAQ for a new book. That is a bit boggling how you came to that conclusion. Even more so that you then only want to apply some of the FAQ items and not all.

Well, for one you're kinda shoving words in my mouth here- I didn't say I only wanted to apply some of the entries. In fact, I didn't say I wanted to apply any of the entries. In double fact, I said I would prefer it if the rules for the old FAQ didn't apply to Tyranids anymore because virtually everything in it was some sort of penalty.

The fact that GW hasn't taken the FAQ down is part of what leads me to believe it may still be applicable (although very possibly in ways they didn't intend, like the psychic powers.) When CSM and Eldar came out, their FAQs were both amended very quickly- even preemptively- and removed all of the old stuff. I don't think it's unreasonable to see the fact that Tyranids are a week in with no adjustments as potentially having some significance.

I'm pretty sure the FAQ is dated, like it actually has a date on it. Using the FAQ for a book released on a day later than the FAQ itself seems like a pretty big lapse in judgement.

-Pax

*shrug* I'm not saying it makes any particular sense, but all of the arguments against it applying are strictly interpretational- they rely on shoulds rather than anything actually written anywhere.

Having a new codex invalidates the old FAQ.

Again, I don't see where you're getting this from, other than wishful thinking. The book is still called "Codex: Tyranids." Neither the FAQ no the page it's on specify in any way that the documents apply to particular versions of a codex. I see absolutely nothing that invalidates its application to the new book, at least in the general sense.

Mind you, I would like for them to undo some of the stuff they've put in the FAQ, but that doesn't automatically mean my wishes will come true.

* Another thing that is currently legal until FAQ'd: Bugs can use weapon emplacements.

I'm not sure where people are getting this from. Yes, the Tyranid FAQ is outdated, but that doesn't automatically invalidate all its text- the part about not being able to use Emplacements is in no way a reference to the old codex (as opposed to the parts that say things like "On page 33, replace blah blah with...") so it still applies unless a TO or your group decides otherwise.

I actually like the swarmlord a lot now.  The 18" synapse range and 3 rolls on the Nid powers means that the chance of catalyst is really good (dirty math says about 61%).  Also, the ability to give one of the hormagaunt units (or any unit, frankly) furious charge for a turn is downright awesome.  

It's 50%. Psychic power chances are actually pretty easy to calculate, although it can get a little tricky under certain circumstances. Giving Hormagaunts FC is actually very useful, but only because Adrenal is kinda overpriced for basically all of the little bugs. I don't like Swarmy nearly as much anymore- losing access to Invisibility and/or Iron Arm means that he's actually very rarely going to make it across the field successfully, especially as slow as he is. And losing the "reroll invuln saves" part of his swords means that he's not nearly as dangerous in close combat anymore, so anything in his cost range should tear him apart pretty easily (Draigo, Eternal Shield Biker Master, etc.)

It's 14/13/11, 355pts base, 9HP, holds thirty models, and has two Zzap Guns and a Kannon. It adds +1 to rolls on the Thunderblitz table. it has access to most of the usual Ork upgrades, although at varying costs, and can buy up to three Supa-Rokkits or three Grot Bombs. It can trade out its normal guns for other Big Gunz in any combination for free and may buy up to four additional guns form the usual Ork weapons (including twin-linked versions.) It can also choose to instead upgrade the three starting weapons to bigger guns of various types, some of which reduce its transport capacity.

That basically covers it. The normal upgrades range from 5-25pts, the "big" replacement weapons range from 25-65pts.

Wow sporemines and biovores need an faq bad.

 

You can't assault in assult phase on turn arrival... I can only imagin this is the results, raw would probably support.

 

Are they placed as unit? Or separate? If unit, are all shots from a brood of biovores one large unit?, therefore facing issues with coherency.

 

Can you run spore mines first turn in?

 

It seems you would place first shot then use that for follow up shots, only placing spore mines after all shots resolved any other method would suck. If could first turn assault you would almost always get back in, you can scatter max 9" if in los and place models so 8" away if you drol 2 more.

Spore Mine Clusters, the FA slot unit, can Run but not Assault the turn they come down. Spore Mines placed by Biovore or Harpy attacks can both Run and Assault the turn they are placed. This may not be what they intended, but the rules are very clear on the matter.

If a Biovore/Harpy shot misses, you place a cluster of d3 Spore Mines as a single unit. They are placed under the hole from the first blast from the squad- no further shots are resolved.

The Sunshark is an okay unit, if not an amazing one. It can hit a bunch of stuff, it's got some alright AA guns, and a Skyfire Markerlight is never to be underestimated. However, it's not especially cheap and it's VERY fragile, so it's not really a strong tournament choice. It's definitely not as good as a Riptide, although it can be a lot of fun.

Stubborn models ignore penalties when making Morale or Pinning tests, so they won't suffer the -3 when making those rolls; they will still have it for psychic tests, regroup tests, Fear tests, and anything that refers to the Leadership value directly (such as Psychic Shriek/Scream.)

I don't think full broods of Devilgaunts is the way to go- you're allowed to mix weapons in a squad now, so taking 15-20 Termagants and then filling out the rest with Devilgaunts behind them is a good way to have enough bodies to soak casualties, but still have a lot of firepower once you get in range.

Exocrines are pretty excellent, yeah. I need to get mine built so I can see if it's possible for them to have cover behind an Aegis Line, but my intuition is that they won't be able to, so you'll need something else.

The models you listed, assuming no other upgrades, are about 2100pts give or take. however, as Mawlocs and Exocrines are both HS units, it's not a legal list. You're really short on Synapse, having only the Tyrant and Shrikes, neither of which is very durable- I would at the very least make it a Flyrant or give it some Tyrant Guard. to make sure it stays alive. Also, Lictors to guide in the Mawlocs could be very helpful- Infiltrate in, move + run forward (or assault if you're going second and the distance isn't too bad) and you're actually pretty close to the enemy on T2 when the Mawloc arrives. If you hit the dirt, you probably end up with a 2+ cover save and HnR can scoot you all over the field if you're lucky.

Technically it is not either, but it is resolved like a shooting attack, so I would say you use the rules as though it was "shooting" at artillery. (Terror from the Deep is even mentioned in an example in the shooting section, under Random Allocation, although the example no longer applies.)

Generally speaking, anything that is not explicitly a close combat attack is resolved like a shooting attack- so abilities like Terror, or an explosion from a vehicle, or other such effects would all get done the same way.

Yeah, Mawlocs can get some weird stuff happening if they Mishap. Beyond what you mention, you almost WANT them to get the 1-3 mishap result so they stay off the board, can't be shot at, and will come in next turn to hit something else.

This dex depresses me.  

Ditto. It's not there's nothing good in here, but it feels really lazy compared to the other books, all of which get neat special rules and army-wide bonuses.

Hmmm, that's interesting, I re-read how that works, and, you're right.  Mawlocs could easily be doing good work on lots of things like broadsides and such.  They are one of the few things that can do damage BEFORE interceptor kicks in, which gives them an edge against Tau, which, as I'm looking at this, seems to be the worst possible opponent for Nids (mostly because of the availability of ignores cover and high-strength shooting as well as loads of nasty rapid fire).  Mawloc popping up underneath two broadsides has a real shot at taking them both out in one go.  That's significant.  

Mawlocs are reasonably solid, although they do have a significant issue in actually striking on target- they're about as accurate as firing artillery blind, which is to say not terribly accurate at all. That said, they are an extremely cheap W6 monster that can try and take out enemy heavy infantry before they get a chance to do anything to you, and that's hardly bad. Sadly, since they hit side armor rather than rear armor now, vehicles are a major problem for them.

I am going to try an Exocrine, because why not try out some long range plasma shots, 3x screamer killers, and a mawloc.  Mawlocs have the potential to do alot of work against blobs too.  One question though, does a large blast marker clear enough room to place the mawloc on the table?

It does not. The Mawloc's base is the large oval one, which is longer than (but not quite as wide as) the large blast marker. You will very commonly need to repeat the the attack in order to clear enough space.

SitW is great and all, and I think SitW coupled with ye ald Deathleaper could be potentially devastating to psykers, it's the delivery system that's a concern.  No more spore pods is TERRIBLE.  The Trygon tunneling system is just not an adequate substitute.

New Shadow, while somewhat worse than the old one, is pretty fine at the end of the day. The fact that it is still a blanket effect and the same range is probably good enough, and against lower-Leadership psykers it's actually really strong.

Removing Mycetic Spores was an incredibly arbitrary decision, though. If they didn't want to make a model for them, they could just add a "Mycetic Spore" upgrade that let the unit Deep Strike.

I won 5 tournies out of the first six I played in using the white dwarf sisters codex. By the way, using a list that included the canoness and her command squad, plus one of everything in the codex. So unfortunately your internet "sources" will have to bark up another tree. Didnt Mikhailenin go 3rd at NOVA using sisters and gk allies? And I've seen pre tre have success. Crudacce did fine on the codex. So...my point was...in all fairness, perhaps we should not be so hasty.

*shrug* And I've won a billion billion matches using nothing but a single naked Inquisitor with no other models in my army, but that doesn't prove anything, either. I believe Mikhail's 3rd place finish was using the old WD codex, unless I'm greatly mistaken, not the newer one.

I think you mean Robin Crudacce? 

If you really want, I can comb over your posts to nitpick minor spelling and grammatical errors, too, but it doesn't make me any smarter for doing so.

 

Unless you count codex's in which case i have to say:  Codex Space marines looked fine to me.  I liked PLaying Sisters of Battle from the White Dwarf and he did some of that with Matt Ward (who I do not prefer).

 

I'll admit:  the old Tyranid codex was kind of a victim of timing.  It was terribly timed.  Given a few months of retrospect, i think that codex would have been a little different.  

It's nice that you like the SoB book, but the overwhelming response from other people, including other SoB players, is that it is amazingly bland and very weak, even compared to the White Dwarf codex. The fact that, as far as I know, it hasn't even placed well in a single tournament since it was released would lend credence to that idea.

"If the Tyranid book was written differently, it wouldn't have been so bad" is not a defense. The later codices that improved on it were written by other authors- I don't think there's anything to really support the notion that Crudacce would have done better if he had been given more time.

Codex: Space Marines is alright, but there's still some serious complaints to be had. Ask a Raven Guard player what they think of the book.

On topic:

 

Swarmlords look like a bad ass version of nemesor Zhandrek that acts like an Autarch Strategist, that instant kills everyone he sees, meets a shut down Librarian with this:

 

P: +6'' synapse (not Sitw) [weak primaris]

1: FnP for unit and one additional unit (buffed)

2: Pin test at -2(maybe -3) [iirc same]

3: can run and shoot (the same)

4: minus d3 WS & BS to a unit for a round (nerfed)

5: nova 2d6+2 vs ld (can only take invul saves against) (same)

6: Warpblast in its current form (same)

 

 

Dayam.  He may be a lot of points, but he is kinda awesome.  Now I have USED the Nemesor a lot.  Let me tell you something:  the ability to grant Furious Charge,  Monster Hunter, or Preferred Enemy is awesome.  It makes what looks like a really "okay" unit a lot MORE than okay unit for ITS cost.

 

Hmm.  I think they overdid the points on it, but I certainly see why.  The reserve gambit is strong in this army...

Maybe you didn't know what Swarmlord did before, but he took a MAJOR hit in effectiveness. First of all, he can't get Invisibility, Iron Arm, or Endurance anymore- all three of which were better than the powers he has now. Second, he doesn't let you reroll outflanking edges. Third, his Boneswords don't force the enemy to reroll invulnerable saves. That's a lot of strikes against him, and it's not to even mention the fact that he went up in price (albeit barely) and is still just as slow as he was before. T6/3+ isn't enough to get you across 24" or 36" of ground by itself when the other guy is shooting at you.

(And with regards to the Tyranid psychic table- it's hardly bad, but the Primaris is almost entirely useless and the inability to access any other tables or guarantee particular power results, especially combined with the low mastery levels of Tyranid psykers, means that you can't really rely on having anything helpful.)

Also sometimes the thing is that Robert Cruddace is a f***ing hack and can't write a book to save his life.

I would highly recommend magnetizing your suits, or if you are unwilling to go the extra bit, at least merely attaching the weapons with sticky-tac or the like. You absolutely are going to want to change their loadout later on, regardless of what you give them at first.

As per the reference chart on p.426, walkers (and thus presumably superheavy walkers) can only move at Combat Speed (or remain stationary, of course.) Cruising Speed is listed as "N/A" for them.